Jump to content
Existing user? Sign In

Sign In



Sign Up

Why do people hate the "men can pee but women can't" trope?


Recommended Posts

On 5/20/2021 at 10:33 PM, secretomoact said:

Glad you liked the story! 🥰 My issue with the trope is that it kinda... paints people with too broad a brush, if that makes sense. From some of them, you get the impression that all guys just pee wherever they want whenever they want, and no girl would ever even consider thinking 'outside the box' when trying to find relief. When I read those sorts of scenarios, it's hard to picture myself in them. Yeah, sure I have the parts that make peeing in unusual places physically simpler, but I'm so pee-shy that it's not likely to actually happen and I'll be getting as desperate as anyone else. Meanwhile, several of the girls I know wouldn't be too upset by having to pee outdoors so long as there was at least something to use for cover. Which is why I prefer stories using a set-up where some people can go and others can't to be more of a mixed bag; One where both men and women are getting desperate depending on how they specifically react to the situation as individuals. 

I prefer situations where it's something personal about the character that's causing them to get desperate and not go. When I write a book, I kind of inevitably start thinking about which traits each of the characters have that could result in them having a hard time relieving themselves, and rarely does their physical sex factor into any of my imaginings there. 

Just quoting something I said about this trope in a different topic. 
 

I don’t automatically hate any fic that uses it though. 

Link to comment
48 minutes ago, secretomoact said:

Just quoting something I said about this trope in a different topic. 

Hmm, the lack of realism does make sense; I also find that unrealistic fics take me out of the story too much and I can't immerse myself, relate, or enjoy the writing because I'm too busy thinking "wow, that definitely wouldn't happen". 

20 minutes ago, LifeIsStrange said:

I don't dislike it at all, some have said that it's sexist but I personally disagree, I think it's just realistic because in general guys are way less shy about peeing outside of bathrooms then women are.

Yeah, no, I don't think it's sexist either, that's why all the dislike of it has always kind of baffled me. I'd pee outside if I had to and I could be sufficiently covered/there was no one around and no way of anyone seeing me. 

7 minutes ago, Despguy123 said:

I don't dislike the trope but I personally prefer stories with the opposite situation i.e a guy is in a situation where he doesn't get to pee but the women do. There aren't many stories with this but two very good ones that come to mind are 'a different school' and 'bus trip missed stops' by a lady called Francine. 

But why does it specifically appeal to you that one gender gets to pee and the other doesn't? I guess that's another big thing I'm confused about; why is it a turn-on for it to be specifically about women peeing when men can't? Like, why not just have everyone be able to pee or not if they want to/don't want to, regardless of gender? 

Link to comment

I have a few reasons for not liking it when it's used in the context of written omorashi fiction. First, I think "sexist" is too strong a word but for me it's very like... "haha boys and girls are different" and that's the sort of thinking I'm personally trying to get away from. It's not that it offends me or anything like that, it's more that I think it plays on something overly simple and even childish. At this point in my life I no longer find it interesting or compelling to highlight the supposed differences between men and women.

Second, I don't find it relatable because it doesn't reflect my experiences. I can think of one time that it kinda happened but that was more due to unwillingness on the part of the women, rather than inability or a lack of permission. In the vast majority of instances where it might've applied, I can pretty much always think of at least one or two women who "figured it out."

Third, with no offense intended to people who use it, it's often used in lazy writing. Not saying people should never use it but idunno, by this point I've read hundreds of stories that rely on that specific trope and it's played out. Depending on your point of view this might be the least valid of my concerns, because like really what am I criticizing here - omorashi writing as a whole? That's "fart in a hurricane" levels of effective.

Tl;Dr I think it's overly basic, doesn't match up with my experiences, and I've seen it too much

Link to comment
7 minutes ago, brothacheese said:

I have a few reasons for not liking it when it's used in the context of written omorashi fiction. First, I think "sexist" is too strong a word but for me it's very like... "haha boys and girls are different" and that's the sort of thinking I'm personally trying to get away from. It's not that it offends me or anything like that, it's more that I think it plays on something overly simple and even childish. At this point in my life I no longer find it interesting or compelling to highlight the supposed differences between men and women.

Second, I don't find it relatable because it doesn't reflect my experiences. I can think of one time that it kinda happened but that was more due to unwillingness on the part of the women, rather than inability or a lack of permission. In the vast majority of instances where it might've applied, I can pretty much always think of at least one or two women who "figured it out."

Third, with no offense intended to people who use it, it's often used in lazy writing. Not saying people should never use it but idunno, by this point I've read hundreds of stories that rely on that specific trope and it's played out. Depending on your point of view this might be the least valid of my concerns, because like really what am I criticizing here - omorashi writing as a whole? That's "fart in a hurricane" levels of effective.

Tl;Dr I think it's overly basic, doesn't match up with my experiences, and I've seen it too much

Hmm, agree with all your points, especially the first one. I think that's what I've been trying to say: there's no interest for me in trying to say that men and women are different. I don't care. 

Thanks for your answer!

Link to comment

Personally it is one of my favourites tropes, but I think that is because it is one that I have personally witnessed. Coach trip where the guys demanded a stop and jumped out to piss at the side of the road, while the girls opted to wait until the rest stop. Watching the guys get the relief they craved so badly must have been torture. Its not that they were forbidden, per se, it just wasn't "the done thing" for girls to pee in public. I often wonder if one had gone, would more have followed?

Link to comment
46 minutes ago, pguy69 said:

Personally it is one of my favourites tropes, but I think that is because it is one that I have personally witnessed. Coach trip where the guys demanded a stop and jumped out to piss at the side of the road, while the girls opted to wait until the rest stop. Watching the guys get the relief they craved so badly must have been torture. Its not that they were forbidden, per se, it just wasn't "the done thing" for girls to pee in public. I often wonder if one had gone, would more have followed?

Wow just like that one story I read on Shara and Ger's, interesting.

I personally find anything highlighting the differences between men and women fascinating so that's why this trope appeals to me.

Link to comment

I agree completely. People call it sexist, but there ARE differences between men and women, that's just fact. Without question, rightly or wrongly, it is more socially acceptable for men to pee in public that it is for women, biology means it is also a lot more discreet for a man to "whip it out" and pee than it is for a woman to "pop a squat", at best, revealing her ass to anyone that happens to be wandering past. Maybe that is unfair, maybe that is wrong, but that is the way it is and it was a lot worse than it is now in years gone by. It must have led to many desperate situations for women over the years.

Link to comment

i don't think its sexist, girls bathrooms have typically longer lines than men, and women aren't as easily able to discreetly hide when they pee, making it harder for girls to just pee whenever and wherever like guys, its obvious, that doesn't make it sexist to me, its just true . Ive always liked those scenarios but thats because im submissive and its just nice to read that, rather than the other way around

Link to comment

I feel like the “X Gender can’t go but Y can” trope is either you love it or hate it. I personally like the trope where guys can go but girls are forced to hold it precisely because it’s unfair. I think it’s great in fan-fiction or videos, but I obviously wouldn’t want this sort of situation to happen in real life because that’s just wrong. 

Link to comment
30 minutes ago, Ms. Tito said:

I hate the trope because it just triggers my injustice senses. It boils my blood for no reason, I just hate seeing people forced to hold it based on their gender or what's between their legs. 

Okay, I did wonder if some people disliked it specifically because of the gender thing. I just don't see what the point is in even focusing on that at all. It seems like the most pointless trope to me. 

18 minutes ago, Spectre Jester said:

I feel like the “X Gender can’t go but Y can” trope is either you love it or hate it. I personally like the trope where guys can go but girls are forced to hold it precisely because it’s unfair. I think it’s great in fan-fiction or videos, but I obviously wouldn’t want this sort of situation to happen in real life because that’s just wrong. 

Completely understand that about liking the trope specifically for its taboo nature; I love a lot of stuff in fiction that wouldn't even be legal irl. But this one is just beyond me in terms of why it appeals to anyone; it just seems so boring. Not like a good use of fiction writing at all. But to each his own! 

Link to comment
12 minutes ago, astralis said:

Okay, I did wonder if some people disliked it specifically because of the gender thing. I just don't see what the point is in even focusing on that at all. It seems like the most pointless trope to me. 

Completely understand that about liking the trope specifically for its taboo nature; I love a lot of stuff in fiction that wouldn't even be legal irl. But this one is just beyond me in terms of why it appeals to anyone; it just seems so boring. Not like a good use of fiction writing at all. But to each his own! 

I personally don't find it boring at all precisely because it's the kind of thing I always fantasized about witnessing in real life but never got to.  

Link to comment
1 hour ago, LifeIsStrange said:

I personally don't find it boring at all precisely because it's the kind of thing I always fantasized about witnessing in real life but never got to.  

I feel like me wondering 'why' at this isn't going to get me any farther than it already has but I'm just sitting here genuinely baffled why this is something you personally fantasize about witnessing irl. 

53 minutes ago, violentdreams said:

it feels so cisgender to me, like 'haha men have penises women don't'. personally, i'd like if it got a bit more creative. i've skipped bathroom breaks because i can't use the urinal like my peers can, why not make a story with that instead of the same, boring man with penis woman with vagina thing?

Again, why would you even want to focus on this topic in fiction at all? Cisgender or trans there is like, nothing at all compelling that I can see about the idea of one set of people using the bathroom while the other can't. If there's a story about desperation I'd much rather everyone just stay desperate until they wet themselves in the end. 

Link to comment
28 minutes ago, astralis said:

 

Again, why would you even want to focus on this topic in fiction at all? Cisgender or trans there is like, nothing at all compelling that I can see about the idea of one set of people using the bathroom while the other can't. If there's a story about desperation I'd much rather everyone just stay desperate until they wet themselves in the end. 

my best guess is sexuality. some people just don't want to see a specific sex be desperate

Link to comment
5 hours ago, violentdreams said:

it feels so cisgender to me, like 'haha men have penises women don't'. personally, i'd like if it got a bit more creative. i've skipped bathroom breaks because i can't use the urinal like my peers can, why not make a story with that instead of the same, boring man with penis woman with vagina thing?

This is something I have been thinking about doing recently. Love the idea of an ftm trans man, desperate to pee, but unable too. Maybe because people don't know he's trans and all the other guys are peeing behind a tree, or at the side of the road. Maybe there are only urinals available, maybe a bigoted security guard won't let him into the mensroom. There are a lot of possibilities that it would be great to explore.

Link to comment

@LifeIsStrange

"I don't dislike it at all, some have said that it's sexist but I personally disagree, I think it's just realistic because in general guys are way less shy about peeing outside of bathrooms then women are."

Exactly, cause you don't need to expose your ass! I'll admit that I call out sexism a lot in general but I have to fully admit that biologically speaking this is just facts, it may not be fair for women that they can pee as easily as men can, but it is nonetheless a fact. If anyone is sexist in that case it is nature for shortchanging us in that regard. What is sexist however I think is how society deals with the issue, putting the burden on women to hold it in longer or just put up with it, and just the fact that society affords men a lot more opportunities to relieve themselves whether toilets are available or not. But even where of urinals and things of that nature are available it still benefits men disproportionately. So the response to this biological factor where we can get into the sexist territory I think. Society does to a large degree privilege men's relief over female.

"I personally don't find it boring at all precisely because it's the kind of thing I always fantasized about witnessing in real life but never got to."

Get an outdoor job with female coworkers, you'll witness tons of it! Speaking from extensive experience here...

@brothacheese

"Second, I don't find it relatable because it doesn't reflect my experiences. I can think of one time that it kinda happened but that was more due to unwillingness on the part of the women, rather than inability or a lack of permission. In the vast majority of instances where it might've applied, I can pretty much always think of at least one or two women who "figured it out.""

I maybe this is a big factor as well. See me it's the opposite as it really has reflected my experience growing up where almost all of my friends and relatives were men, so I was very often the only woman in the situation not getting to go to the bathroom. And when some people say that the women figured it out I think that it's more to say some women are more willing to expose themselves than others. Many women are unwilling to go to the bathroom outside simply because it involves exposing yourself or they don't know how to squat properly without peeing on themselves, which is very much my case. So I think that experience does determine a lot of what people like in particular stories. I like this trope very much simply because it speaks to my own personal experience very extensively and strongly.

@pguy69

"Personally it is one of my favourites tropes, but I think that is because it is one that I have personally witnessed. Coach trip where the guys demanded a stop and jumped out to piss at the side of the road, while the girls opted to wait until the rest stop. Watching the guys get the relief they craved so badly must have been torture. Its not that they were forbidden, per se, it just wasn't "the done thing" for girls to pee in public. I often wonder if one had gone, would more have followed?"

I have made numerous posts about this very situation and it has been inspired many stories from my own personal experience. Believe me it's absolutely torture in those situations. Maybe it's not forbidden directly but it's basically societally assumed that women will simply continue holding it in a situation like that, where people will judge you if you happen to pop a squat. This is in fact very common and something I have experienced a real lot and I think that that is why it is my personal favorite trope of all, just because I have experienced a lot and realize that it really is a form of psychological torture to go through, as overly dramatic as that sounds. But when you experiencing it regularly believe me you really really notice it when the guys are peeing on the side of the road and you are holding it for many more hours.

I did make an entire post about this where I mentioned that in situations like that sometimes when one woman speaks up more women are likely to follow. Like I think a lot of people are afraid or embarrassed to be the only one admitting they need to go to the bathroom, it's only when others break the ice and start speaking up do you feel like you have been granted permission by the group at large to suddenly demand attention to your own needs. But if nobody speaks up it is just naturally assumed that the women will continue holding and suffering in silence for however long.


I think it's similar to what the me too movement, those things went on for years and nobody ever spoke of them, but then when some women started speaking up than other women felt safe and speaking up about it as well. Again I'm not going to compare not getting to pee to sexual assault or anything much more serrious like that, but it's a similar situation of women mostly being silent about a long-standing situation and it's only after a couple of people were brave enough to demand attention or justice that other women felt comfortable coming forward, and that's very much a societal thing more than an individual thing and I think it applies to something like women even asking permission or demanding relief. Society does keep women in a state of silence about most of these things.

"This is something I have been thinking about doing recently. Love the idea of an ftm trans man, desperate to pee, but unable too. Maybe because people don't know he's trans and all the other guys are peeing behind a tree, or at the side of the road. Maybe there are only urinals available, maybe a bigoted security guard won't let him into the mensroom. There are a lot of possibilities that it would be great to explore."

I have often felt that trans individuals are probably notice these things more than anybody else. I think that a trans-man growing up with the restrictions that come with women urinating must be especially frustrating for them. But just FYI all of those situations you have mentioned are things that ciswomen all experience very regularly and are very frustrating, for somebody who identifies as male and has to live that particularly frustrating and unfair female experience it must be even more frustrating.

@Brittanybunny

"i don't think its sexist, girls bathrooms have typically longer lines than men, and women aren't as easily able to discreetly hide when they pee, making it harder for girls to just pee whenever and wherever like guys, its obvious, that doesn't make it sexist to me, its just true . Ive always liked those scenarios but thats because im submissive and its just nice to read that, rather than the other way around"

I don't think the fact that women can't pee as easily as necessarily sexist, but like I said earlier the fact that men have more opportunities for relief and women have bathroom lines when men frequently don't is sort of the result of societal sexism. It's just more difficult for women to relieve themselves compared to men and society doesn't go out of its way to make it easier, in fact often making it deliberately more difficult.


But yes it is sort of a very submissive to be when you have to go to the bathroom and others are able to when you are not, and for me that creates lots of tension and drama and to me that's what makes the story interesting and that is why I like writing so many stories about these experiences, simply because it speaks to my own personal experience and because I can makes for an interesting story at least from my perspective. But I think that people like stories that relate to their own experiences even more.


Like we even see this in mainstream literature and and things of that nature. Representation matters. A lot of people of color and women growing up where all stories involved cis white males didn't have as many role models and didn't have stories they could relate to as much and now we are finally at least seeing that change, now people can see themselves and their experiences represented more. And I think bathroom experiences are one of those things that few people really speak of and people keep quiet about their own experiences.

@Spectre Jester

"I feel like the “X Gender can’t go but Y can” trope is either you love it or hate it. I personally like the trope where guys can go but girls are forced to hold it precisely because it’s unfair. I think it’s great in fan-fiction or videos, but I obviously wouldn’t want this sort of situation to happen in real life because that’s just wrong."

I feel that is the case still, personally I love it because it speaks to my experience and because I think desperation is all about unfairness to some degree. Desperation is always sort of like a struggle between those who are desperate and those who have been relieved. The thing that makes the whole situation dramatic and interesting is simply because it's unfair. Without unfairness I don't think there would be a desperation fetish at all.


That is where I am in sort of a conflicted situation and that the situations that I find most interesting psychologically or to explore through writing are exactly the experiences that are most infuriating to be in yourself. In that regard I think writing about it is kind of cathartic because you are trying to expose some type of injustice, even if it's an injustice that also is highly arousing, so it's definitely a lot of conflicting feelings about these things.


But as you can see I have a very lot to say about this because anyone who has read my stories will realize that I am very much invested in this particular trope. And I always found explorations of gender and sexuality and the differences between men and women and other groups to be very interesting and is the driving point of a lot of my non-omorashi related writing as well. I'm very interested in the psychology the sociology and all of that that go into all of this as well, admittedly excessively so because I have a tendency to fixate on things.

Link to comment
9 hours ago, violentdreams said:

it feels so cisgender to me, like 'haha men have penises women don't'. personally, i'd like if it got a bit more creative. i've skipped bathroom breaks because i can't use the urinal like my peers can, why not make a story with that instead of the same, boring man with penis woman with vagina thing?

For real. What about trans women, or trans men?! Intersex people?! Though, to be fair, I doubt such a repressive society would be very kind to them in the first place. It would be awesome to see like an underground queer resistance group that commits acts of strategic public urination. 

Link to comment
8 hours ago, astralis said:

I feel like me wondering 'why' at this isn't going to get me any farther than it already has but I'm just sitting here genuinely baffled why this is something you personally fantasize about witnessing irl. 

Again, why would you even want to focus on this topic in fiction at all? Cisgender or trans there is like, nothing at all compelling that I can see about the idea of one set of people using the bathroom while the other can't. If there's a story about desperation I'd much rather everyone just stay desperate until they wet themselves in the end. 

Well plenty of people would be equally baffled by us fantasizing about pee in general, they'd look at us like we're from mars or something LOL.

Link to comment
4 hours ago, pguy69 said:

This is something I have been thinking about doing recently. Love the idea of an ftm trans man, desperate to pee, but unable too. Maybe because people don't know he's trans and all the other guys are peeing behind a tree, or at the side of the road. Maybe there are only urinals available, maybe a bigoted security guard won't let him into the mensroom. There are a lot of possibilities that it would be great to explore.

I love trans stories like this. 

8 hours ago, violentdreams said:

my best guess is sexuality. some people just don't want to see a specific sex be desperate

Maybe. I just don't like it because it feels too Handmaid's Tale-esque.

Edited by Ms. Tito (see edit history)
Link to comment

Personally, there are two separate issues. First off, secretomoact hit the nail on the head. There's not some magic rule where women can never pee outside and men always can. It always comes down to the particular situation and individuals. If a particular situation and set of characters means the men in the group will and women won't I don't necessarily hate that as long as it makes sense. When those sort of rules start getting applied to what is supposedly a story set in the real world, it pulls me out of the story.

The second case is more particular to the stories written by a few particular authors. In those stories the dynamic between the men and women feels a lot like more of a dom/sub story where the dom is forcing the sub to hold and teasing them. In that context, role play between two people in that sort of relationship, it can work. When it's applied to every man interacting with every woman in a story, it gets awkward and doesn't really work. It just reads like literally everyone in the story has a piss and bdsm kink and acts it out with anyone, any time. See above about pulling me out of the story.

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...