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Do you think that ANTIFA is a terrorist organisation?


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I personally think that ANTIFA is terrorist organisation due to the fact that one of the criteria in order for something to count as terrorism is “The threatened or actual use of illegal force and violence by a non-state actor to attain a political, economic, religious, or social goal through fear, coercion, or intimidation.” This all applies to ANTIFA, as their apparent goal is to fight "Fascism" which is more or less everyone and eveyrthing that does not agree with them. That is what i think, however feel free to post what your think in the comments.

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Well, I'm going to disagree about Antifa being a terrorist organization.  My reasoning? They don't actually seem to be an organization, they seem to barely exist, many of the acts attributed to them s

Of course not how can being anti fascist be terrorist lol. Were people fighting for the allies in WW2 terrorists? I miss when everyone reasonable was anti fascist! We have actual fascists trying

Antifa is not even a official organization as it just means a shared ideology of being against fascism, which everybody should be against. Whenever people bring up the idea of anti-fascism being terro

Yes.  They explicitly try to invoke fear with the aim of using it to affect political change.  The only reason they aren't officially treated as terrorists is because certain people in high places use them as shock troops whenever they need some muscle on the streets.

It's also kind-of ironic for them (and the original Antifa from Weimar-era Germany in fact) to call themselves "anti-fascist" while wearing the uniform and embracing the practices of Mussolini's blackshirts.  Of course, the only real differences between the various forms of socialism (which include fascism, read up on how it started - the idea of fascism being "right wing" is an explicitly communist one) are tautological - even if they claim to all want something different, the end result is the same if they ever seize power: totalitarianism and suffering on a mass scale - so this doesn't surprise me.

Edited by D0nt45k (see edit history)
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Anyone from any political idelogy, no matter their place on the politcal spectrum can be a terrorist. And to answer your question whether the soldiers fighting germany were terrorists. No. Because acts of war and acts of terrorism are two diffrent things.

9 hours ago, kittyearsamy said:

Of course not how can being anti fascist be terrorist lol. Were people fighting for the allies in WW2 terrorists?

I miss when everyone reasonable was anti fascist! We have actual fascists trying to overturn elections and you are all worried about anti-fascists! I'm glad I'm over here in Europe where it's a little tiny bit more sane.

"Of course, the only real differences between the various forms of socialism (which include fascism, read up on how it started - the idea of fascism being "right wing" is an explicitly communist one)"

That's not what socialism is at all you nut. Socialism is using taxes to fund public services, like healthcare, transport, schools, roads etc. Finland is one of the most socialist countries in the world, is that a dictatorship? Denmark has one of the best wellfare states, is that a dictatorship? UK has the socialist NHS is that a dictatorship? (ok bad example lol)

If you think the NAZis had anything to do with socialism you must believe that the democratic people's republic of korea is a shining beacon of democracy 🤣

Gesh the fox news brainwashing is so strong, never expected to see such things on a forum like this!

 

 

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Yeah but antifa just means anti fascist, that's not "more or less everyone and eveyrthing that does not agree with them" its the political ideology that promotes far-right, authoritarianism, ultranationalism, dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and protest, racism and demonisation of minorities etc etc.

In other words, anything a decent human being should be against.

Imagine if "Fa" (you know the opposite of anti fascist) found out you like to pee your pants for fun, they'd want you'd be sterilized and put in a mental home or disposed of entirely. That's how "Fa" views people that are different.

What terrorist acts have antifa actually claimed responsibility for? and by that I mean actually claimed, not just had fascist groups pin on them in attempt to project their own violence onto the groups that oppose them?

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On 2/5/2022 at 7:32 PM, TVGuy said:

Well, I'm going to disagree about Antifa being a terrorist organization.  My reasoning? They don't actually seem to be an organization, they seem to barely exist, many of the acts attributed to them seem heavily exaggerated if not completely fictitious.

I am from the Pacific Northwest region of the United States.  Outside of HD Wetting and HD Diapers, I have a mainstream video production company that serves a variety of clients, including broadcasters.  During the Portland Oregon BLM protests, I was contracted to provide additional video coverage by several cable news stations, including CNN, Fox News, and MSNBC.  I also sold video, as a freelance stringer, to CBS, NBC, and Reuters.

If you watched cable news during the time these protests were taking place, you were likely left with the impression that the entire city of Portland was overrun with Antifa.  That violence filled the streets and the city had devolved into a war zone with authorities and Antifa battling for domination.  A lot of the video you may have seen from Portland was stuff that I personally shot.

However, all of the coverage that I ever saw of these protests tended to be extremely inaccurate.  For nearly five months I was in Portland every day to cover what was going on, and here is what I saw-

  • The vast majority of protestors were not organized Antifa soldiers.  They were ordinary people who came out to peacefully protest.  And with only a few exceptions the protests were overwhelmingly peaceful.
  • Usually the protests would start around 5pm and continue to around midnight.  These protests were almost entirely on the street in front of the Federal court house building, they weren't overrunning the entire city.  You could be just a block away having dinner outside, enjoying the sidewalk dining of one of Portland's many cafe's and have any clue that protests were taking place nearby.
  • They typical atmosphere of these protests was almost carnival like.  Food trucks would show up and sell their items to the protestors and musicians and street performers would put on shows.  There were a lot of families and children present.
  • Fox News, which was paying me more than any other outlet, really wanted me to get video of Antifa, and I tried, but despite accounts of this being an Antifa warzone, there were hardly any visible sign that antifa was there at all.  Occasionally, there would be a few teenagers wearing red masks with the word "antifa" written on them, but talking to these kids revealed they weren't part of any kind of organization, they just agreed with the idea of being anti-fascist.  They also thought by wearing these masks and saying they were antifa they would get on TV.
  • The little bit of violence that did occur was highly exaggerated.  The protests had been going on for many weeks, even months, before there was any kind of violence.  When it did occur, here is what happened- There were always 7 people dressed in all black and wearing antifa masks, only 7 of the hundreds of protestors.  Just after midnight, these 7 would appear on the steps of the courthouse and start shooting fireworks at the courthouse and the police guarding it.  This provoked a heavy police response, resulting in the deployment of tear gas.
  • Despite it being 7 people who always were dressed the same, the police response always seemed to target the crowd in general.  The 7 instigators usually vanished fairly quickly.
  • On four nights, of the many months of protests, after police deployed teargas I did witness people committing acts of vandalism.  The people I saw doing this were always dressed the same as the 7 instigators at the court house.  Based on the small number of people I saw doing this, I believe they were likely part of the 7 that started causing problems in the first place.
  • A lot of the video of civil unrest that aired on TV and was attributed to Portland Oregon was not actually video of the protests or even from Portland.  However, I do not think this was done intentionally.  I believe what happened was that people would post videos of riots and civil unrest online, claiming those videos to be scenes from Portland, and those videos got picked up by news stations and aired.
  • Even on nights where the protests remained entirely peaceful, which really was the vast majority of nights, the cable news stations would keep rerunning video of the nights where things went sour.  Their reporting also made it sound like there were huge numbers of people who turned violent, not just 7.
     

So, based on all this.  And since Portland and these protests were supposedly this massive war with Antifa, to me it seems like Antifa is nothing more than keyboard warriors and a handful of teenage vandals.  Antifa seems to be more of a conservative boogeyman than any kind of real group or movement to me.

Maybe somewhere Antifa does exist as some organized terrorist organization.  But, considering all the hype around Portland and Antifa, and how all that hype boiled down to just 7 vandals and a whole bunch of exaggeration, I really am not sure Antifa is really anything but a handful of trolls.

Another note on Antifa in Oregon.  The summer following these protests in Portland, Oregon saw some of the worst wildfires in its history.  Whole communities were lost as fire swept through and entire cities had be evacuated.  During this time, right wing patriot groups, citing fears of Antifa, decided they needed to protect their communities from looting.  They armed themselves and setup highway checkpoints, blocking relief workers, evacuees, and the press at gunpoint.

Finally, I would like to end with a question for the original poster, @Finishuser4444- Do you believe the Republic Party of the United States is a terrorist organization?  Based on your criteria, it sounds like they are.  On January 6th of 2021 a group that had gathered to listen to a speech by the outgoing republican president used force to breach the Capitol building security in an attempt to prevent the certification of election results.  Just this past Friday, yesterday as of the time I write this, the Republican Party issued a statement declaring that it is their official position that the attack on the Capitol on January 6th was "legitimate political discourse" and have censured two of their party's own members for participating in an investigation into the attack.

So, that seems to meet the criteria you set forth for a terrorist group- 1) We saw the use of actual force to attain a political goal through fear, coercion, and intimidation. 2) The GOP is a political party, not a state actor.  3) The party itself hasn't distanced itself from the events of January 6th, going so far as to declare the acts legitimate political discourse.

thank you for the extremely eloquent and accurate explanation. 

 

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1 hour ago, kittyearsamy said:

Yeah but antifa just means anti fascist, that's not "more or less everyone and eveyrthing that does not agree with them" its the political ideology that promotes far-right, authoritarianism, ultranationalism, dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and protest, racism and demonisation of minorities etc etc.

In other words, anything a decent human being should be against.

Imagine if "Fa" (you know the opposite of anti fascist) found out you like to pee your pants for fun, they'd want you'd be sterilized and put in a mental home or disposed of entirely. That's how "Fa" views people that are different.

What terrorist acts have antifa actually claimed responsibility for? and by that I mean actually claimed, not just had fascist groups pin on them in attempt to project their own violence onto the groups that oppose them?

Antifa members were responsible for stabbing a Neo-nazi during a demonstration in stockholm, the Antifa member was sentenced to 5 years in prison. The Red army faction also claimed to be anti-fascists, and where responsible for among other things :
Murder (atleast 34 deaths)
Kidnapping and attempted kidnapping
Bombings (one of which costed the german government almost 100 million USD)
Robbery & Armed Robbery

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3 minutes ago, DesperateJill said:

Antifa is not even a official organization as it just means a shared ideology of being against fascism, which everybody should be against. Whenever people bring up the idea of anti-fascism being terrorism I have to kind of laugh because the real terrorists almost exclusively right-wing these days. They were the ones who attacked the Capitol, they were the ones marching Tiki torches, those are the ones who are against democracy, and even the FBI said that almost all of the terrorism of the last few years, virtually all without exception has been right-wing terrorism, which is far on the rise. In the year 2018 according to the FBI all forms of terrorism that were recorded were right-wing in nature, not most ALL. The only ones who views anti-fascists as terrorists are the fascists themselves who are unfortunately experiencing a surge in popularity despite the fact that it didn't turn out very well the first time around. When will people ever learn?

As I just said, anti-fascists can be terrorists, because the criteria for what is considerd terrorism has nothing to with what politcal ideology the terrorists are promoting. And as I just said, the red army faction Claimed they were fighting "The new face of Fascism". And while doing so, they took with them the innocent lives of 34 people. However that group was dissolved in 1998, and its members hasn't been active since 1999. I agree that the majority of terrorist acts are from far-right groups and individuals, however I wouldn't say that the entirety of the terrorist threat is from the Far Right, I would say that Islamic Extremism is still a serious threat, even tho the amount of attacks in the west have decreased significantly since the defeat of ISIS/ISIL in 2019.

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@Finishuser4444

"As I just said, anti-fascists can be terrorists, because the criteria for what is considerd terrorism has nothing to with what politcal ideology the terrorists are promoting. And as I just said, the red army faction Claimed they were fighting "The new face of Fascism". And while doing so, they took with them the innocent lives of 34 people. However that group was dissolved in 1998, and its members hasn't been active since 1999. I agree that the majority of terrorist acts are from far-right groups and individuals, however I wouldn't say that the entirety of the terrorist threat is from the Far Right, I would say that Islamic Extremism is still a serious threat, even tho the amount of attacks in the west have decreased significantly since the defeat of ISIS/ISIL in 2019."

It's true that there have been left-wing terrorists, not denying that, such as in Russia and the weather men in the United States in the 60s, although today the majority seems to be right-wing terrorists, as it's far right fascists who are on the rise overwhelmingly. I remember I had watched a program on PBS recently where they talked about the rise of the far right and they mentioned the statistic that the FBI found that EVERY single incident of terrorism in the year 2018 was right-wing in nature. So it's not that there aren't left-wing terroristsm but the majority overwhelmingly are right-wing at this point in timem and they are the ones who are a major threat to democracy.


And I would consider Islamic fundamentalist to be right-wing terrorists, as they are certainly not very liberal. And personally while I am against terrorism in general, I mean against innocent people and stuff like that, I feel that being violent against fascists is not necessarily a bad thing. The way I see it Fascism is an evil ideology and it if you can't resolve it through peaceful means I support defeating it by any means necessary, like we did during World War II. Personally if somebody stabbed a Nazi I would consider that to be a good thing.


Once again it probably varies based on your location, but in the United States overwhelmingly the vast majority of terrorists are far right fascists, neo-Nazis skinheads and white supremacists who are a much more major problem than I think most people realize, as there is a very strong militia movement in the United States and I think that these people genuinely do want a Civil War. I also feel that the regular mass shootings that we experience in the United States could be considered a form of terrorism, although that's not really ideological, that's just mostly a lot of pissed off sexually frustrated white guys, although a good many of them are white supremacists.

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"Antifa members were responsible for stabbing a Neo-nazi during a demonstration in stockholm, the Antifa member was sentenced to 5 years in prison. The Red army faction also claimed to be anti-fascists, and where responsible for among other things :
Murder (atleast 34 deaths)
Kidnapping and attempted kidnapping
Bombings (one of which costed the german government almost 100 million USD)
Robbery & Armed Robbery "

So in other words some group in the past did some stuff, but recently nothing, unless you count a street brawl/assault as terrorism.

"I'm proud to be antifa. "

Me too and I can't wait to get my welcome pack and the uniform of Mussolini's blackshirts " 🤣🤣🤣

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5 hours ago, Lisk said:

Who would have THUNKED🤣!

Also why is that a bad thing?

Depends, what was he doing?  If he was just standing there or shouting invective, that doesn't give you the right to attack him just for speaking, no matter how much he angers you with his bigotry, and for the record, I despise neo-nazis, but I still wouldn't assault one just for their beliefs alone. Before you ask, I would say the same thing if a communist was attacked under identical circumstances by somebody right-wing - I may not agree with what you're saying, I might even find it abhorrent, but I'll defend your right to say it with my life (now, if you decide to act on your beliefs and start attacking people physically, that's different, I would argue it's justified in those circumstances to put somebody down before they cause further harm).

When you attack somebody for speaking with the intent to silence them, you aren't proving yourself right, you're displaying fear of what he has to say.

Edited by D0nt45k (see edit history)
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I don't think Antifa qualifies as a terrorist organization, mostly because it's not really an organization. There's no chain of command, no rules or bylaws, not even a cell system for organized resistance. Antifa is nothing more than a point of view, and that point of view is that fascism is bad. (A position I happen to agree with both on an abstract intellectual level and strong emotional conviction.) If somebody disagrees with that position... well, that is a separate and distinct problem.

It's ironic that I can say this on a forum dedicated to niche sexual fetishes but not in the survivalist forums and chat rooms and discord servers I frequent, because so many survivalists are politically conservative and get their news from, well, the news networks most likely to paint Antifa as some sort of nebulous bogeyman.

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6 hours ago, DrBorderline said:

I don't think Antifa qualifies as a terrorist organization, mostly because it's not really an organization. There's no chain of command, no rules or bylaws, not even a cell system for organized resistance. Antifa is nothing more than a point of view, and that point of view is that fascism is bad. (A position I happen to agree with both on an abstract intellectual level and strong emotional conviction.) If somebody disagrees with that position... well, that is a separate and distinct problem.

It's ironic that I can say this on a forum dedicated to niche sexual fetishes but not in the survivalist forums and chat rooms and discord servers I frequent, because so many survivalists are politically conservative and get their news from, well, the news networks most likely to paint Antifa as some sort of nebulous bogeyman.

You don't need to be centralized to be terrorists (indeed, often the most successful groups of these sorts are really a collection of loosely affiliated cells rather than a centralized entity), what defines a terrorist are their motives and methods.  Their motivation, if you actually look past the rhetoric, is explicitly political (they're a loose collection of anarcho-syndicalists, anarcho-communists, and in some cases straight up tankies that only have a few common goals in mind), and seeing as violently assaulting their opposition and destroying private property both fit their MO, they fit the bill.  Of course there's also the opportunists consisting largely of angry teens and 20-somethings that just want an excuse to break shit and the safety of numbers to maximize the chances they can get away with it, but that's another matter entirely.

Not helping their case is how...broad their definition of "fascist" tends to be.  If you ask the average member, it seems like anybody right of Bernie Sanders is a fascist by their standards.

And another thing, I know that the majority of the active users here are probably left-wing, judging by the political compass thread, so the fact that some of you might sympathize with their stated politics might give you rose-tinted glasses when looking at them.  Try to be objective and ask yourself this: "if an equally diffuse right-wing group (let's use the Proud Boys as an example - they're similarly decentralized with little if any coordination between chapters) was doing the exact same thing they were, but targeted leftists, would I consider it terrorism?"  If it's terrorism when one side does it and not when the other side does the exact same thing, then you are a partisan hypocrite, and part of the problem.

Edited by D0nt45k (see edit history)
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18 hours ago, D0nt45k said:

When you attack somebody for speaking with the intent to silence them, you aren't proving yourself right, you're displaying fear of what he has to say.

As the grandson of one of the original antifa who stopped the original fa, I do display the fear of their resurgence and I do not want to wait for them to start backing their words with actions. Luckily, there are laws that regulate this kind of thing in most countries, but there's also those who lionize SS, so I'd like to reserve the right to disagree with the neonazis by damaging them beyond repair.

Edit: SS as in Straight Shota is okay, Luka is a hero

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1 hour ago, Lisk said:

As the grandson of one of the original antifa who stopped the original fa, I do display the fear of their resurgence and I do not want to wait for them to start backing their words with actions. Luckily, there are laws that regulate this kind of thing in most countries, but there's also those who lionize SS, so I'd like to reserve the right to disagree with the neonazis by damaging them beyond repair.

Edit: SS as in Straight Shota is okay, Luka is a hero

And you certainly have every right to be concerned, just as they have the right to defend themselves from people like you if you decide to throw the first punch.  Doesn't help that, again, the definition of what qualifies as "fascism" in the eyes of most far leftists seems to be "anybody or anything we don't like."  This is the pattern of behavior I've observed from them numerous times, in person.  If they were just fighting actual fascists, I wouldn't be as concerned, but they go after centrists, milquetoast conservatives, and liberals as well.

Also, you do realize that the original Antifa was explicitly a militant group affiliated with Germany's Communist Party, right?  Of course, knowing the average political persuasion of people here, you might see that as a plus.  For my part, I loathe totalitarianism regardless of whether it's left wing or right wing.  We didn't fight off one form of oppression just to submit to another one.

Edited by D0nt45k (see edit history)
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"Try to be objective and ask yourself this: "if an equally diffuse right-wing group (let's use the Proud Boys as an example - they're similarly decentralized with little if any coordination between chapters) was doing the exact same thing they were, but targeted leftists, would I consider it terrorism?"  If it's terrorism when one side does it and not when the other side does the exact same thing, then you are a partisan hypocrite, and part of the problem. "

A lot of stuff seems to get blamed on them, but very little proof ever imerges that they ever organise large scale violent protests etc. Like other folks have said usually it's just a conservative boogeyman to distract from all the genuine bad stuff these right wing groups are doing.

"Also, you do realize that the original Antifa was explicitly a militant group affiliated with Germany's Communist Party, right?"

Um, no, I believe the original antifa started in Italy, as opposition to Mussolini.

 

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34 minutes ago, kittyearsamy said:

"Try to be objective and ask yourself this: "if an equally diffuse right-wing group (let's use the Proud Boys as an example - they're similarly decentralized with little if any coordination between chapters) was doing the exact same thing they were, but targeted leftists, would I consider it terrorism?"  If it's terrorism when one side does it and not when the other side does the exact same thing, then you are a partisan hypocrite, and part of the problem. "

A lot of stuff seems to get blamed on them, but very little proof ever imerges that they ever organise large scale violent protests etc. Like other folks have said usually it's just a conservative boogeyman to distract from all the genuine bad stuff these right wing groups are doing.

"Also, you do realize that the original Antifa was explicitly a militant group affiliated with Germany's Communist Party, right?"

Um, no, I believe the original antifa started in Italy, as opposition to Mussolini.

 

I used them purely as a hypothetical example.  I'm well aware that the worst they've been accused of that can actually be proven beyond a shadow of doubt is being a nuisance, and even that's spurious in many cases.  Antifa, on the other hand?  Cases where they got let off the hook by sympathetic DAs notwithstanding, has had members convicted of crimes up to and including attempted murder.  However, unlike their right-wing or centrist counterparts, they're allowed to get away with it, because certain, powerful people use them as shock troops whenever they need their opposition intimidated.

On the subject of the original organization, I'm referring to the group that first explicitly called themselves Antifa, "Anti-Fascist Aktion", a militant group operating in Weimar Germany in the 1920s and early 1930s and was explicitly formed and supported by Germany's Communist Party.  Their modern descendants use both their name and iconography, along with tactics borrowed from Mussolini's blackshirts..which, again, doesn't surprise anybody that actually does any reading on what kind of beliefs form the cornerstone of fascism instead of just accepting communist propaganda as fact; fascism and communism are both different strains of socialism, and naziism is yet another strain (where they differ is the foundation of their ideological "struggle", for communism it's class, for fascism it's nationality, for naziism it's race), and too many small-minded people just dismiss this out of hand because they've been lied to for a lifetime about exactly where all those ideologies came from.

Edited by D0nt45k (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, DesperateJill said:

@D0nt45k

"And you certainly have every right to be concerned, just as they have the right to defend themselves from people like you if you decide to throw the first punch.  Doesn't help that, again, the definition of what qualifies as "fascism" in the eyes of most far leftists seems to be "anybody or anything we don't like."

If I had a dollar for every time the right accused anything that the left has ever done of being a communist plot I would be in a tax bracket that would make me part of the 1% assholes that embrace fascism the most. The right thinks pretty much everything that the left does is a communist plot. If Obama used the bathroom they would say it was part of a global communist plot. The modern day right thinks for any criticism of capitalism whatsoever is a Stalinism. Ironically in regards to Covid the right also seems to say that every restriction based on that is fascism, not realizing that they are the ones holding the Nazi and Confederate flags at rallies. Having to wear a mask? Just like forcing Jews to wear a star of David! Teaching the holocaust in schools? Can we get the other view on the Holocaust to make it fair and balanced, you know the Nazi view? This is exactly why we need to teach the history of racism in schools to a much greater extent than we currently are, but of course critical race theory (meaning history taught with the left wing bias that racism is bad and a problem needing to be addressed) is a communist plot...

@ParadoxicEros

"Of all the places I would expect to come across political debates, a fetish-based site is certainly not one of them"

Amen to that! I recently got into sort of a big debate about violence against women on a fetish site and I am like, this is a fetish site, why am I having this argument here? That said I have said my part in this thread and I don't think I have anything more to add, I think that this is a situation where people will just have to agree to disagree. I feel like a fetish board is sort of a weird place to have a political debate because I mostly come to places like this to get my mind off of the terrible political situation that depresses the hell out of me on a daily basis, so I'll say no more. I'm a proud partisan and fully admired left wing Marxist ideologue when it comes to opposing Nazism, and my postings on social media about Trump got me a secret service visit, no fooling! Proudest moment of my life. So yeah I'm not going to be swayed by a political thread on a pee fetish board lol.

Did you know that Nazism stands for National Socialism?

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