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female Will Women Ever Be Able to Relieve Themselves As Easily As Guys Or Are Long Lines and Female Desperation the Inevitable Way of the World?


Will women ever be able to relieve themselves as easily as guys or is female desperation and long lines just natural?  

76 members have voted

  1. 1. Will women ever be able to relieve themselves as easily as guys or is female desperation and long lines just natural?

    • Some improvement may be possible but women will probably never be able to relieve themselves as easily as guys and often times will just have to keep holding it for an extended amount of time.
      23
    • I feel that long lines and excessive holding are not inevitable and that there are solutions that are practical and that will improve things in the long run.
      19
    • Ultimately anatomy is destiny and guys will always be able to relieve themselves more easily and the long ladies room lines and extended female holding are simply the way of the world and there is no changing that.
      24
    • I feel that bathroom lines and women holding for extended amounts of time are not only are they inevitable but they are likely to get worse in the future if anything.
      10


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I thought that this would be a good post for my 1500th post. As anyone who has read any of my posts or blogs  knows I have always been curious as to why female desperation is so prevailing done so much the norm in the world along with ladies room lines and I have always wondered the causes of that and whether there was actually any solution or whether this was just the inevitable way of the world.
After thinking about this for a long amount of time and looking more and more at the facts I am coming to begrudgingly admit my conclusion is that I do feel that it's almost inevitable that women are probably always going to have to end up holding it a lot more than guys and that there probably isn't a real practical solution anywhere in sight.


I have concluded this based on numerous facts from talking to people and researching this on the Internet. It has been shown that women seem to go on average twice as often as men or need to go rather twice as often, not that we necessarily get to go twice as often, quite the opposite. It has also been shown that women take usually twice as long to go to the bathroom and due to urinals men often get double or triple as many places to relieve themselves so it's inevitable that the lines were going to be enormous. In fact one video pointed out the fact that if you factor in all of the issues with the ladies room that on average there will be a line that is 34 times as long to the ladies room as to the men's room, which sounds ridiculous but when you look at the fact that there is often an enormous line to the ladies room and absolutely none whatsoever at the men's room I am forced to conclude that that is true.


Potty parity has been proposed in some places but that often only just brings women up to having the same number as stalls and urinals as men, and even giving double doesn't seem to necessarily solve the problem even if it does improve the problem. But these mostly apply only to new or heavily renovated buildings so change along those lines is inevitably slow.


But when I think of the idea that the ladies room line is literally 34 times as long as the line to the men's room you can see how even double the number of toilets as exists now would only reduce that to 17 times as long the line to the ladies room which is still ludicrously longer so even if potty parity was implemented everywhere overnight the ladies room line would most likely still be enormous.


Obviously we are never going to have a situation where women are provided with 34 times as many restrooms as now, nor is that remotely realistic in any type of reality, which again is difficult to admit but you have to concede to the facts and practical reality at some point.
In an average place I feel like it's not a major problem these days to find a toilet say in the city at a restaurant or a McDonald's, even if there is sort of a short wait no matter what. But I have come to the conclusion that in almost any situation where there is a limited amount of time to use the bathroom or where there is a large number of people who need to use the bathroom that the ladies room line is going to always be enormous or that using the bathroom is simply just not going to be possible for the majority of women who need to use the bathroom.

As a person who has devoted so much time and energy to this issue it's hard to admit defeat in this case, but the facts seem to be spelling the inevitable that no matter what way you look at it or slice it it's always going to be easy for men to go to the bathroom either without wait or with a limited wait and be able to relieve themselves in almost any incidents whether there is a bathroom available or not.


And the terrible conclusion that I have reached is that the opposite is also true, no matter which way you slice it it is almost inevitable that in some cases, even a real lot of cases, is never going to be practical to have a ladies room line or bathroom access for women that is anywhere remotely approaching what it is for men.


Maybe it's just as a result of my experiences from the last year where I have learned to hold it for six or seven hours out of necessity, but I have come to the conclusion that in regards to a lack of adequate female facilities the response may literally be that the only solution is that you just simply do have to hold it in a lot of instances and there is just no possible way around that.


So yes it sucks and it's frustrating, even for people who enjoy seeing people desperate, but when you practically need a bathroom being female I think inevitably means that in some cases you're just going to be caught short and there is nothing you can do about it but learn to cross your legs and hold on.


So from now on I'm going to accept the fact that if you are at a rest stop with a limited amount of time to use the bathroom it's likely that not all women are going to get to go. If there is an intermission with a limited amount of time to use the bathroom not all women are going to get to go. If you need to use the bathroom between class you may simply have to hold it for several periods. If there is no bathroom available at all you may end up having to hold it for a very long time.


Again it's unfair, it's extremely frustrating, but at the end of the day it is probably inevitability and anyone who doesn't want to find themselves in a really dire situation had better take this inevitability into account whatever they happen to be doing because not to do so you do at your own peril.


So I've gone from sort of a radical feminist to a pragmatist and realist. Ultimately I feel that men are always going to be able to urinate more efficiently and always have access to a bathroom where the case is not always so for women. There are inevitably going to be situations where the men get to go and not all the women get to go and it is probably not entirely the men's fault and that there is little that can be done about that simply because it's a matter of anatomy and practicality.


In that regard I also do not oppose the idea of street urinals without level of outrage that I had previously done. Do they help the women in any way? No. Are they unfair and symbols of male urinary privilege? Absolutely. Are they practical solution to the problem of men urinating in the streets and useful in their own regard? Yes.


So yeah personal experience tends to be eye-opening and the fact sometimes speak for themselves so I reluctantly admit that in regards to these issues there may very well not be any real practical solution and that is just something that women will probably always have to deal with and that men who enjoy your female desperation will always get to enjoy.


Anybody have thoughts on this issue? Do these facts jive with your own experiences?

 

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I thought that this would be a good post for my 1500th post. As anyone who has read any of my posts or blogs  knows I have always been curious as to why female desperation is so prevailing done so muc

Unless something crazy happens like gender-neutral bathrooms or ladies urinal funnels or something like that, I don’t think there is an “easy” solution to this problem.  Fact is that for boys, if they

Is not the eventual solution for women to adapt to use female urinals? I know would take a total cultural shift. Perhaps some country should lead the way forward?

Unless something crazy happens like gender-neutral bathrooms or ladies urinal funnels or something like that, I don’t think there is an “easy” solution to this problem.  Fact is that for boys, if they only need to pee, they can be done within 30 seconds or so, but it takes girls a minimum of 1 minute to pee (1 1/2 to 2 minutes is probably more realistic)  because of the extra things they need to do.  Now, if you have to do #2, that’s a bit different.  In that scenario, boys probably have less cubicles than girls do for doing #2, but fortunately it’s not as common to do #2 as #1, but you could be having to do #3 (1 PLUS 2) on occasion.

It has been said that girls probably need to pee twice as often as boys, but I don’t know how true that is.  I do think that because urinals take up less space than stalls and toilets, that it is probably reasonable to assume that on average, the boys bathrooms have more places to pee than the girls bathrooms.  One possible way to make potty parity more “fair” to girls is to have at least as many girls toilets as there are boys toilets plus urinals.  Ideally, you’d like to have twice as many girls toilets compared to boys toilets and urinals, but I don’t think that’s going to happen.  Unfortunately, that means that there will be times where girls will have to wait in line for a while to get relief, so they don’t want to wait until they’re about to pee their pants to get to a bathroom.  The problem comes when they don’t have a half hour (or even 10 minutes) to wait in line to pee because they have places to be.  

For example, let’s say you are in a school setting with 5 minutes between classes and 3 stalls in each girls bathroom, and the rules are such that you can’t be late and can’t go to the bathroom during class.  In that scenario, I would say that you can get 4 girls per stall MAXIMUM during that 5 minute transition period, so with 3 stalls total, that means that a maximum of 12 girls can wait in line (if needed), pee, and get to class on time, and even that’s probably way too optomistic.  Instructors and administrators constantly ask students that ask to use the bathroom during class why they didn’t go between classes.  Well, if everyone that needed to pee tried to do so between classes, there’s not enough time for everyone to do so (especially for the girls), because there are probably more girls that need to pee than there are toilets available, which means that some of them are going to have to wait in line.  And if you’re one of those girls that has to wait in line and there are more than 2 or 3 girls ahead of you in line, then by the time you wait in line and pee, the chances of you getting to class on time are not very good.  So then you get the question about “Why are you late?”, and the truthful response would be  “I had to pee really bad and the bathroom line was too long.”  So essentially, they have to choose between being late to one of their classes or eventually peeing their pants (if there is a bathroom line during every class change, which is very possible).  In this scenario, you could be rushing to the bathroom between classes knowing you are about to pee your pants, and by the time you get there, there are already a few girls ahead of you in line, and you are worried about peeing your pants, being late to class (or both).

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@brucejedi

First off I just want to say bravo as I consider this one of them best most well thought out posts that I have ever seen on this board as you did the math like I did to show that the odds are really against women getting relief.


As you pointed out with the math that you did it would require that the men make significant sacrifices of bathrooms and end up having to wait themselves if women are ever to have any type of comparable wait times and I don't think that most men would be up for that. I still remember reading about a time when they actually did something like that and as soon as there were men's room lines the men were up in arms so they switched things back to the way they were with women waiting a half hour in line.


Also as you pointed out that without significant increases in bathrooms overall that none of these things are going to be possible. It's not just enough to give a more equal amount of toilets to men and women but for women to really use the bathroom very quickly they would need significantly more places to go, and as you pointed out most older buildings don't have room to expand their bathrooms greatly, and most places don't really want to spend money on providing anything more than the minimal number of bathrooms.


What that essentially means is that when it comes down to it is that things simply are not likely to change. You pointed out how it is possible very well, but also admitted that it's probably extremely unlikely.


I think the problem is is that the average place only has a limited capacity for their bathrooms or to expand it and urinals are simply more cost-effective and easier to fit in the same space as multiple stalls. So what you often have is maybe a couple of stalls for women and an equivalent number of stalls from men plus a whole row of urinals perhaps on the opposing wall. And in most places I can say that this isn't likely to change anytime soon so we are back to the initial problem of where men will have virtually no waiting whatsoever and women will have a significant waiting time and there doesn't seem to be many ways around that short of a vast increase of bathrooms overall slanted in favor of women heavily, neither of which seems very likely to happen anytime soon, if ever. And even if people nationwide or worldwide committed to that right now it would probably take decades before any of the changes were noticeable.


So yeah although you could end up increasing the ladies room by decreasing the men's room I think that the men wouldn't really stand for that, but given that women have all of these other factors such as having to go more often, taking longer, often having to bring children into the restroom with them, sometimes having to deal with feminine issues like menstruation or pregnancy, and the overall time it takes getting in and out of the bathroom especially when crowded all compound the problems as these weren't even factors that were brought into the simple numbers in these equations.


So again that is why I am pessimistic that we are ever going to see a situation where women are able to go as quickly as men. For men it's relatively easy to provide enough that men can go quickly with plenty of time to spare but with women is just simply not as simple due to anatomical reasons and cost.


Once again I would like to say this is one of my favorite post ever here as you obviously really well thought it out and you have probably come to the same conclusion that I did that although it is possible it is extremely unlikely.

@Holdon

"Is not the eventual solution for women to adapt to use female urinals? I know would take a total cultural shift. Perhaps some country should lead the way forward?"

Female urinals have been tried in several places but they have never really been popular and never really caught on as most women prefer the privacy of a stall and can't use those urinary devices as efficiently and easily as a man can use his natural anatomy. Plus women still have to get undressed more and all of these other factors. And since most women would use stalls for everything it just makes more logical sense to provide stalls rather than urinals that few people are going to use. You are right that for this to come into being it would require a major cultural shift but even that I don't think would do the trick in all honesty.

@DesperateQueue

"It has been said that girls probably need to pee twice as often as boys, but I don’t know how true that is.  I do think that because urinals take up less space than stalls and toilets, that it is probably reasonable to assume that on average, the boys bathrooms have more places to pee than the girls bathrooms.  One possible way to make potty parity more “fair” to girls is to have at least as many girls toilets as there are boys toilets plus urinals.  Ideally, you’d like to have twice as many girls toilets compared to boys toilets and urinals, but I don’t think that’s going to happen.  Unfortunately, that means that there will be times where girls will have to wait in line for a while to get relief, so they don’t want to wait until they’re about to pee their pants to get to a bathroom.  The problem comes when they don’t have a half hour (or even 10 minutes) to wait in line to pee because they have places to be."

And once again this pretty much nails the hammer on the head. You can't get around the basic facts that women go to the bathroom more, take longer and need significantly more places to go in order to make things more equivalent or fair.


And again one of the problems with potty parity is that they are just trying to double the number of stalls in the women's room but doubling the number of stalls would simply bring it up to an equal number of stalls and urinals in the men's room, but when you factor in the fact that women still go more, take longer and have other issues to deal with equality of numbers doesn't result in equality of outcome, not by a long shot.


Also as you pointed out to really make things significantly better you would probably have to have twice as many girls toilets to boys toilets as you said, but as the whole thread has been arguing that that is very unlikely to happen as most bathrooms don't have a significant amount of expansion room and most people do not want to spend the money and it is simply not realistic to provide that many bathrooms.


So once again this brings us around to the same problem that started everything that seems to have relatively few solutions that are really practical in a way that would significantly improve things. Once again at the end of the day even when you do most of the math and try to figure out ways you could change things around you still end up having an enormous line at the ladies room and nothing for the men.


In places that aren't especially crowded with a huge volume of people at once this is really not much of an issue, but once again going into lots of situations where large numbers of people gather and there is only a limited amount of time to use the bathroom it really is an impossible task. If you only have five or 10 minutes to use the bathroom and there is always a 30 minute line that means that like 80% of the women in these situations are not going to get to go and will have to keep hoping until the next time desperately holding on only to probably find a similar issue again and again.


So yes there has been a lot of good thinking in this thread about how there could be solutions to it but again it does seem like it is unlikely, and that for the foreseeable future I have resigned myself to the fact that it intermission's, rest stops, between classes, outdoors and lots of other situations the majority of women are simply condemned to being forced to hold it for long stretches of time while their male companions have no such inconvenience.


Once again it's extremely frustrating, it can be extremely uncomfortable, it's extremely unfair, but there seems to be few practical solutions to it other than suck it up, hold it in and plan for these eventualities or failing to do so at your own peril. It is simply a frustrating fact of the world that nature, anatomy and practicality have determined that one sex will have to hold a very full bladder in situations where the other has no such burden.


And once again it's very hard for me to admit that, but facts are facts and the more you look at the facts the more pessimistic it is for women getting relief, but for all those who enjoy seeing women squirming around at least there is that solace to be taken, especially by you guys as you don't realize I think in many cases just how lucky you are when it comes to simply doing something as basic as relieving yourself without it being a hassle.

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Hi all, I’ve replaced my post above with this one that includes updated assumptions. (You can find the original post in the hidden text at the end of this message).

Guiding assumptions:

  1. Women on average take twice as long to pee as men do (see https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0038012118300521). For our model, assume men pee in 1 minute, women in 2 minutes.
  2. Women on average pee 14% more often than men do (8 times per day versus 7 times; see https://www.auajournals.org/doi/10.1097/01.ju.0000149947.28100.cd).
  3. Toilet stalls take up 50% more space than urinals (size ratio = 3:2). This is based on a non-scientific analysis of bathroom floor plans.

 

Scenario 1: Let’s assume two equal-sized bathrooms, the men’s with 6 urinals and 2 stalls, and the women’s with 6 stalls. (In the women’s, four stalls take the place of six urinals, 2:3 ratio.) Thus the men’s room can accommodate 8 male pee-ers per minute, while the women’s room can accommodate just 3 female pee-ers per minute.

Now let’s assume a situation between college classes where there are, realistically, 8 minutes available to pee without being late to the next class.

In the first two minutes:

  • 16 men approach the restroom, and all 16 are served. Line = 0
  • 18 women approach the restroom, and just 6 are served. Line = 12

In the second two minutes:

  • 8 more men approach, and all are served. Line = 0
  • 9 more women approach, and 6 from ahead in line are served. Line = 12 – 6 + 9 = 15

In the third two minutes:

  • 4 more men approach, and all are served. Line = 0
  • 5 more women approach, and 6 from ahead in line are served. Line = 15 – 6 + 5 = 14

In the final two minutes:

  • 2 more men approach, and both are served. Line = 0
  • 2 more women approach, and 6 from ahead in line are served. Line = 14 – 6 + 2 = 10

The next class then starts:

  • 16 + 8 + 4 + 2 = 30 men in total got to pee
  • 6 + 6 + 6 + 6 = 24 women in total got to pee; 10 did not get to pee
  • (Note that the total number of women [34] who tried to pee was 13.3% more than the total number of men [30] who tried, which fits our assumptions.)

Average line length:

  • Men’s = 0
  • Women’s = (12 + 15 + 14 + 10) / 4 = 12.75

Some observations:

  • The women’s line was nearly 13 spots longer, caused by a per-minute bathroom peeing capacity that was 63% smaller (3:8).
  • The men’s room had excess capacity after the first two-minute period, quite a bit actually.

So suppose we resize the bathrooms, and exchange 3 men’s urinals for 2 women’s toilets.

 

Scenario 2: The men’s room (3 urinals, 2 toilets) can now accommodate 5 pee-ers per minute, while the women’s (8 toilets) can accommodate 4 pee-ers. Let’s redo our experiment.

First two minutes:

  • 16 men approach, 10 served. Line = 6
  • 18 women approach, 8 served. Line = 10

Second two minutes:

  • 8 men approach, 6 from line + 4 new served. Line = 6 – 6 + 4 = 4
  • 9 women approach, 8 from line served. Line = 10 – 8 + 9 = 11

Third two minutes:

  • 4 men approach, 4 from line + 4 new served. Line = 0
  • 5 women approach, 8 from line served. Line = 11 – 8 + 5 = 8

Fourth two minutes:

  • 2 men approach, 2 served. Line = 0
  • 2 women approach, 8 from line served. Line = 8 – 8 + 2 = 2

Next class starts:

  • 10 + 10 + 8 + 2 = 30 men in total got to pee
  • 8 + 8 + 8 + 8 = 32 women in total got to pee; 2 did not get to pee

Average line length:

  • Men’s = (6 + 4 + 0 + 0) / 4 = 2.5
  • Women’s = (10 + 11 + 8 + 2) / 4 = 7.75

We haven’t gone quite far enough, so let’s try swapping a male toilet for a female one.

 

Scenario 3: The men’s room (3 urinals, 1 toilet) can now accommodate 4 pee-ers per minute, while the women’s (9 toilets) can accommodate 4.5 pee-ers.

First two minutes:

  • 16 men approach, 8 served. Line = 8
  • 18 women approach, 9 served. Line = 9

Second two minutes:

  • 8 men approach, 8 from line served. Line = 8 – 8 + 8 = 8
  • 9 women approach, 9 from line served. Line = 9 – 9 + 9 = 9

Third two minutes:

  • 4 men approach, 8 from line served. Line = 8 – 8 + 4 = 4
  • 5 women approach, 9 from line served. Line = 9 – 9 + 5 = 5

Fourth two minutes:

  • 2 men approach, 4 from line + 2 new served. Line = 0
  • 2 women approach, 5 from line + 2 new served. Line = 0

Next class starts:

  • 8 + 8 + 8 + 6 = 30 men in total got to pee
  • 9 + 9 + 9 + 7 = 34 women in total got to pee

Average line length:

  • Men’s = (8 + 8 + 4 + 0) / 4 = 5
  • Women’s = (9 + 9 + 5 + 0) / 4 = 5.75

Men probably don’t want just one toilet in their bathroom, so we would probably want to find space to convert one of their three urinals to a second toilet. They would need to put up with standing in line between class, but with the understanding that there will be time for all of them to pee. Women also would still need to stand in line, but they too would eventually all get to pee before the next class.

Thus it seems that by reapportioning male restroom space to female (and marginally increasing space overall), parity could be achieved. For new construction, this seems reasonable, so long as men are willing to wait in line a bit (a tall order!). For existing construction, the cost may be prohibitive.

 

Hidden text from original post:

Spoiler

Let’s assume men can pee from start to finish in 1 minute, but it takes women 2 minutes, and that as DesperateJill suggests, women pee twice as often as men.

Scenario 1: Let’s assume two equal-sized bathrooms, the men’s with 6 urinals and 2 stalls, and the women’s with 5 stalls since they take up more space. Thus the men’s room can accommodate 8 male pee-ers per minute, while the women’s room can accommodate just 2.5 female pee-ers per minute. Now let’s assume a situation between college classes where there are, realistically, 8 minutes available to pee without being late to the next class.

In the first two minutes:

  • 16 men approach the restroom, and all 16 are served. Line = 0
  • 32 women approach the restroom, and just 5 are served. Line = 27

In the second two minutes:

  • 8 more men approach, and all are served. Line = 0
  • 16 more women approach, and 5 from ahead in line are served. Line = 27 – 5 + 16 = 38

In the third two minutes:

  • 4 more men approach, and all are served. Line = 0
  • 8 more women approach, and 5 from ahead in line are served. Line = 38 – 5 + 8 = 41

In the final two minutes:

  • 2 more men approach, and both are served. Line = 0
  • 4 more women approach, and 5 from ahead in line are served. Line = 41 – 5 + 4 = 40

The next class then starts:

  • 16 + 8 + 4 + 2 = 30 men in total got to pee
  • 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 = 20 women in total got to pee; 40 did not get to pee

Average line length:

  • Men’s = 0
  • Women’s = (27 + 38 + 41 + 40) / 4 = 36.5

Some observations:

  • The women’s line was 36.5 spots longer, caused by a bathroom peeing capacity that was 3.2 times smaller.
  • The men’s room had excess capacity after the first two-minute period, quite a bit actually.

So suppose we resize the bathrooms, and exchange 2 men’s urinals and a toilet for 2 women’s toilets.

 

Scenario 2: The men’s room (4 urinals, 1 toilet) can now accommodate 5 pee-ers per minute, while the women’s (7 toilets) can accommodate 3.5 pee-ers. Let’s redo our experiment.

First two minutes:

  • 16 men approach, 10 served. Line = 6
  • 32 women approach, 7 served. Line = 25

Second two minutes:

  • 8 men approach, 6 from line + 4 new served. Line = 6 – 6 + 4 = 4
  • 16 women approach, 7 from line served. Line = 25 – 7 + 16 = 34

Third two minutes:

  • 4 men approach, 4 from line + 4 new served. Line = 0
  • 8 women approach, 7 from line served. Line = 34 – 7 + 8 = 35

Fourth two minutes:

  • 2 men approach, 2 served. Line = 0
  • 4 women approach, 7 from line served. Line = 35 – 7 + 4 = 32

Next class starts:

  • 10 + 10 + 8 + 2 = 30 men in total got to pee
  • 7 + 7 + 7 + 7 = 28 women in total got to pee; 32 did not get to pee

Average line length:

  • Men’s = (6 + 4 + 0 + 0) / 4 = 2.5
  • Women’s = (25 + 34 + 35 + 32) / 4 = 31.5

We clearly haven’t gone far enough. We cannot remove the last male toilet; the best we can do is exchange two more urinals for one more women’s toilet.

 

Scenario 3: Men’s room capacity (2 urinals, 1 toilet) = 3 pee-ers / minute; women’s room capacity (8 toilets) = 4 pee-ers / minute.

First two minutes:

  • 16 men approach, 6 served. Line = 10
  • 32 women approach, 8 served. Line = 24

Second two minutes:

  • 8 men approach, 6 from line served. Line = 10 – 6 + 8 = 12
  • 16 women approach, 8 from line served. Line = 24 – 8 + 16 = 32

Third two minutes:

  • 4 men approach, 6 from line served. Line = 12 – 6 + 4 = 10
  • 8 women approach, 8 from line served. Line = 32 – 8 + 8 = 32

Fourth two minutes:

  • 2 men approach, 6 from line served. Line = 10 – 6 + 2 = 6
  • 4 women approach, 8 from line served. Line = 32 – 8 + 4 = 28

Next class starts:

  • 6 + 6 + 6 + 6 = 24 men in total got to pee; 6 did not get to pee
  • 8 + 8 + 8 + 8 = 32 women in total got to pee; 28 did not get to pee

Average line length:

  • Men’s = (10 + 12 + 10 + 6) / 4 = 9.5
  • Women’s = (24 + 32 + 32 + 28) / 4 = 29

With this reapportionment of space, we’ve allowed 12 more women to pee between class compared to Scenario 1, but at the cost of preventing 6 men from peeing. There is now a persistent men’s line, but the women’s line is still more than 3 times longer.

With DespterateJill’s initial assumptions, it does not appear possible to create bathroom parity without allotting more total space to bathrooms in general—a hard sell for older buildings. That said, a study I found - https://www.auajournals.org/doi/10.1097/01.ju.0000149947.28100.cd - suggests that women do not in fact wish to pee twice as often as men do, but rather more like 8 times per day compared to 7 times (14% more often). In that case, considering women’s slower peeing speed, their bathrooms would need 16 receptacles for every 7 in men’s rooms.

 

Scenario 4: A parity situation might look something like 9 toilets in the women’s room (4.5 pee-ers / min), and 2 urinal and 2 stalls in the men’s room (4 pee-ers / min). Then we would get:

First two minutes:

  • 16 men approach, 8 served. Line = 8
  • 18 women approach, 9 served. Line = 9

Second two minutes:

  • 8 men approach, 8 from line served. Line = 8 – 8 + 8 = 8
  • 9 women approach, 9 from line served. Line = 9 – 9 + 9 = 9

Third two minutes:

  • 4 men approach, 8 from line served. Line = 8 – 8 + 4 = 4
  • 5 women approach, 9 from line served. Line = 9 – 9 + 5 = 5

Fourth two minutes:

  • 2 men approach, 4 from line + 2 new served. Line = 0
  • 2 women approach, 5 from line + 2 new served. Line = 0

Next class starts:

  • 8 + 8 + 8 + 6 = 30 men in total got to pee
  • 9 + 9 + 9 + 7 = 34 women in total got to pee (13% more than men)

Average line length:

  • Men’s = (8 + 8 + 4 + 0) / 4 = 5
  • Women’s = (9 + 9 + 5 + 0) / 4 = 5.75

The total size of the two bathrooms (9 toilets in the women’s; 2 urinals / 2 toilets in the men’s) is still larger than in our other scenarios (e.g., #3: 8 toilets in the women’s; 2 urinals / 1 toilets in the men’s). Buildings would need to find space for two additional toilets. Men would need to learn to live with fewer urinals, but would still have ample opportunity to pee between class.

Difficult but perhaps not impossible.

 

 

Edited by brucejedi (see edit history)
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@brucejedi

"Men probably don’t want just one toilet in their bathroom, so we would probably want to find space to convert one of their three urinals to a second toilet. They would need to put up with standing in line between class, but with the understanding that there will be time for all of them to pee. Women also would still need to stand in line, but they too would eventually all get to pee before the next class.

Thus it seems that by reapportioning male restroom space to female (and marginally increasing space overall), parity could be achieved. For new construction, this seems reasonable, so long as men are willing to wait in line a bit (a tall order!). For existing construction, the cost may be prohibitive."

I think that here we get to the root of the problem though is that I don't think that men will stand for standing in line simply because they are not use to it, and I am sure that if men started standing in line they would probably switch things back pretty quickly. like in the case of that stadium at soldier Field.


But you also brought up the fact that for new construction it might be reasonable but for existing construction the cost probably would be in most cases prohibitive. And even when they build new constructions they usually don't provide an excessive abundance of bathrooms. Like according to my long ladies room line survey (https://www.misterpoll.com/polls/540072/results) the average ladies room has between three and five stalls, and that's true even at really crowded places that see a high volume of people in a limited amount of time. This has been my experience as well.


I actually didn't find it to be a problem in college getting to the bathroom seeing as I often had maybe an hour between classes, seeing as in college you had a certain number of classes throughout the day but they didn't all follow one another with the ringing of a bell like they did in high school. So usually in college I had maybe sometimes an hour or more between classes, so it was no issue if I had to go searching for a bathroom. It wasn't the same issue as it was in high school where you had to get to the bathroom and get to class in less than four minutes, which was almost impossible more or less.


I think that this also doesn't take into account really crowded places or limited amount of time such as rest stops and intermissions and other situations of that nature, where aside from giving an enormous gargantuan amount of ladies rooms I don't feel that even converting a couple of men's rooms to ladies rooms is going to significantly help the problem.


I think that one of the crux of the issues is that in a situation where there is a limited amount of toilets men can usually seem to make do with relative ease because they can go quickly in sort of an assembly line process almost, the revolving doors of the men's room.


On the other hand a woman's room, even when they provide an abundant amount of bathrooms still seems to suffer from long lines, and that is why I feel like in the long run that while some improvement can be made, that ultimately in most crowded places on places with a limited amount of time for bathroom usage that women are going to inevitably find themselves caught short and holding it for a long time.


And looking at the results of this poll (and my survey) so far it seems like the majority would agree with that assessment, seeing as only 28% of people said that they feel that there was a solution, with the rest feeling that at best there can only be limited improvement or that it was actually going to likely get worse. It's just when you crunch the numbers like you did you can find some possible improvements but at the same time it suggested basic optimism about the whole situation.


Maybe an interesting comparison would be to do say an intermission assessment, where we say that there are like five ladies room stalls and there are like maybe 100 or more women who need to use the bathroom in 15 minutes. Or similarly at a rest stop where there are two or three stalls in the ladies room and 60 women who want to use the toilet in a 15 minute rest stop break. If you do those numbers you will see that there is probably no real solution that is going to result in the majority of women being comfortable and getting to pee.

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I think it'll be fixed... Just in scifi level futures. Social perception changes are very slow, especially for an "embarrassing" topic like this. If you think about it, if all men were also forced to pee sitting down they'd probably take similarly as long. Theres no particular biology that says we pee slower. So we'd need something like female urinals to become standard. That... Isn't happening anytime soon realisically. Theres some hygenic issues with public standing pee devices as well. Even disposalable ones have lots of ways it could get dirty in a public bathroom setting and individual packaging them would slow down speed in the line.

 

 

And more stall is probably too unrealistic too ask for considering the additional spaces.

Edited by April Nine (see edit history)
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@April Nine

I fully agree, maybe in some type of high-tech Star Trek future the bathroom problems will ultimately be solved but I don't suspect that they will be anytime in the near future, probably not during anyone's lifetime who is reading this right now. Female urinals never caught on or were popular simply because using the devices as you said has hygenic issues as you still get messy with them and it would still slow down the line. It's not the same as just whipping things out, and like you said the number of stalls being added is unrealistic given the small space and excessive cost, so we will have to continue to make do with less.

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I think the fact that men have a penis and hence can pee easily will mean lines will never go away for women unless restroom sizes are signficantly changed. But I also think because girls are just used to holding it in cause there is a line there wont really be complaints or actions towards making such a change. I am curious though why are girls willing to put up with long lines to begin with? 

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1 hour ago, Angusburger said:

I think the fact that men have a penis and hence can pee easily will mean lines will never go away for women unless restroom sizes are signficantly changed. But I also think because girls are just used to holding it in cause there is a line there wont really be complaints or actions towards making such a change. I am curious though why are girls willing to put up with long lines to begin with? 

That’s a very good question, because I would think the fact that boys have a penis means that assuming all other things are equal, that boys can “hold it” longer than girls can “if they need to”.  Not that it’s ever a “good idea” try to hold in your bodily waste fluids, but I would think that boys are more likely to be able to “control” their bladders so that they don’t leak as easily because of the penis, whereas I would think that since girls don’t have a penis, and therefore less bladder space to hold their pee, that they’re more likely to leak and pee all over themselves faster than boys.  Again, this assumes all other things being equal, such as age, health conditions, etc.

On the other hand, if the girls are used to holding their pee longer than boys (which is a shame if that’s what it has to come to), then maybe they’re used to it and therefore don’t complain much about it.  For anyone (but especially the girls), if you need to go to the bathroom, I guess they need to not wait until they’re about to have an accident in case there is a line.  Now, in most places, waiting in line to pee may just be an “inconvenience” but not “the end of the world”.  However, if you’re in a situation where you can only go to the bathroom at certain times and only have a limited amount of time to do so, it can be a big problem.  This is what can happen at many schools and/or work places.  This is why it’s a big deal when you may only have 5 minutes or so between classes at school to use the bathroom and get to class on time, and you can’t be late and can’t use the bathroom during class.  In that situation, if there is any type of line (especially for the girls), you’re pretty much in a bad spot (especially if you are very close to peeing your pants, and need to pee during this break, but also can’t afford to be late).  Ultimately, if you try to hold your pee too long, you’re either going to end up with a UTI (urinary tract infection), a bursted bladder, or peeing your pants.  Peeing your pants is probably more embarrassing than the other two options, but also is not nearly as life-threatening as a bursted bladder or UTI.  If you do pee your pants, well, just try to get to the bathroom quicker next time.

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@Angusburger

"I think the fact that men have a penis and hence can pee easily will mean lines will never go away for women unless restroom sizes are signficantly changed. But I also think because girls are just used to holding it in cause there is a line there wont really be complaints or actions towards making such a change. I am curious though why are girls willing to put up with long lines to begin with?"

This is something that I have given a lot of thought to as I brought up in my other thread about women just being more patient about waiting for a bathroom in general. And I think that it really is just because you get used to it. When it has always been that way I think most people just don't question it. Yes having to wait in line for a really long time can be extremely uncomfortable and inconvenient and everything, but if it's always been that way you just excepted as the way it is and you just put up with it because it's not obvious that there is a solution. Until I heard of potty parity I didn't even realize that there was potentially a way that it could be different, but like you said unless the potty parity makes a significant and really substantial large number of bathroom increases it's probably not going to make all that much of an impact.


So I think that this is just a case of where women are conditioned to hold it because that's just the way things have always been, and even though a lot of people find it annoying they usually don't question it and you just sort of learn to put up with it as the way things are. When you have always waited in line for the bathroom it makes sense to believe that that's just the natural order and I think that most people, until given a significant reason to think otherwise, tend to just accept things as they are no matter how unfair, inconvenient or annoying that they could be.

@DesperateQueue

"That’s a very good question, because I would think the fact that boys have a penis means that assuming all other things are equal, that boys can “hold it” longer than girls can “if they need to”.  Not that it’s ever a “good idea” try to hold in your bodily waste fluids, but I would think that boys are more likely to be able to “control” their bladders so that they don’t leak as easily because of the penis, whereas I would think that since girls don’t have a penis, and therefore less bladder space to hold their pee, that they’re more likely to leak and pee all over themselves faster than boys.  Again, this assumes all other things being equal, such as age, health conditions, etc."

Once again it's a worst of both worlds scenario where women both need to go more and have a harder time holding it and yet are more compelled to hold it out of necessity. Certainly it results in women being more likely to have accidents than men but even that I think tends to be rare as I have witnessed relatively few accidents in my life of men or women. But women just get use to holding it and you start to learn to plan around these things to avoid things like accidents.

"On the other hand, if the girls are used to holding their pee longer than boys (which is a shame if that’s what it has to come to), then maybe they’re used to it and therefore don’t complain much about it.  For anyone (but especially the girls), if you need to go to the bathroom, I guess they need to not wait until they’re about to have an accident in case there is a line.  Now, in most places, waiting in line to pee may just be an “inconvenience” but not “the end of the world”.  However, if you’re in a situation where you can only go to the bathroom at certain times and only have a limited amount of time to do so, it can be a big problem.  This is what can happen at many schools and/or work places.  This is why it’s a big deal when you may only have 5 minutes or so between classes at school to use the bathroom and get to class on time, and you can’t be late and can’t use the bathroom during class.  In that situation, if there is any type of line (especially for the girls), you’re pretty much in a bad spot (especially if you are very close to peeing your pants, and need to pee during this break, but also can’t afford to be late).  Ultimately, if you try to hold your pee too long, you’re either going to end up with a UTI (urinary tract infection), a bursted bladder, or peeing your pants.  Peeing your pants is probably more embarrassing than the other two options, but also is not nearly as life-threatening as a bursted bladder or UTI.  If you do pee your pants, well, just try to get to the bathroom quicker next time."

I think that you pretty much hit the nail on the head, as I was saying above when something has always been that way you just get used to it. Maybe you complain about it or gripe about it but with no obvious solution you just accept things as the way they are, and I think that women learn at a young age to get use to holding it, society sort of expects women to hold it and you ignore this fact of reality at your own peril.


Again I have witnessed relatively few accidents so I think that women just start to learn from a young age that you have to learn to anticipate that there could be a line and that in some cases you're not going to get to go so you try to go when you get the opportunity. Like in my school where there was a limited amount of time to use the bathroom that was really annoying, but then you learn to plan around it. Since I didn't see many girls having accidents I had to assume that the majority of them were just holding all day. Maybe a lot of them were annoyed by it but again few lodged any type of formal complaint, because it once again I think you just get used to that is the way it is. It's really inconvenient and annoying, but most would agree that yes it's not really the end of the world.


I think that that's a big part of it as well, people view bathroom needs as something more like a want, rather than an actual need, something trivial that if you need to be you can put off for a long time, especially for women. So although it's not the end of the world and although it's really inconvenient, frustrating and annoying it's not the worst thing in the world and you just sort of learn to put up with it and excepted as the way things are.


And going back to the point I made when I started this thread as inconvenient, frustrating, uncomfortable and annoying and unfair as the situations are from a practical standpoint I have to begrudgingly admit that there is some type of logic to them. Obviously it's not going to make sense to give women 34 times as many bathrooms just to eliminate bathroom lines, it's not practical or realistic, even doubling the number of women's restrooms to make it equal to the number of stalls and restrooms in the men's room itself is considered to be a rather radical and burdensome and difficult task by a lot of people, so to expect anything ludicrously bigger than that is just not realistic.


So once again it comes back to the fact that women just get use to holding it, and because society doesn't consider bathrooms to be a necessity and since women are just expected to hold it things will keep on being that way, and once again it seems very unlikely to change anytime in the near future. It might just be the way things are, which is unfair, frustrating and uncomfortable, but again I don't really see that many solutions that are very likely or realistic under the circumstances, so the only option is to plan around these eventualities and failing to do so is at your own peril. It's just one of those inconveniences of many that women deal with, and there are a lot worse problems before that in most people's minds. So although a lot of women would probably say that it would be nice to have more bathrooms it's probably not high priority in most people's lives.

 

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I just found this excellent potty parity video that I think spells it out really good and does the math really well and points out that generally speaking in order to have women have any type of anything approaching equality they would need four times as many toilets as men, and I couldn't see the men going for that in all honesty. He made a good argument in favor of it but sadly I can't really see it happening in most places as 26  cubicles is a pretty tall order that most small places couldn't accommodate.

 

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The bottom line is that it looks like we have several factors in play that make it hard to believe girls will get the same “restroom” equity as boys

1)  Girls need to pee twice as often (but that doesn’t mean they get the opportunity to so, as you already know).

2). Girls typically take twice as long to pee as boys do, AND they have other feminine needs that the may need to deal with.

3). These two factors alone would suggest that girls need at least 2 or 3 times as many toilets as the boys have toilets/urinals combined HOWEVER

4). Because of restroom space (urinals typically take less space than toilets, and probably cost less), you will probably have less toilets in the girls bathrooms than urinals/toilets combined in the boys bathrooms

5). Therefore, this combination of facts seems to suggest that the girls will often have a bathroom line when the boys do not.

 

The only “realistic” way this would change is to give girls more bathroom stalls (which means they need more bathroom space than the boys), or to have more “gender neutral” bathrooms.  This is not very realistic in most places.   With the absence of one of these changes, it’s pretty much a given that girls will frequently have to wait in a long bathroom line, and they’re going to need to be patient.  The boys will also need to be patient with the understanding that the girls will take longer in the bathroom because of the long line and the fact that girls need at least twice as long to pee as boys do.  Although annoying for both the girls that have to wait in line, and the boys who have to wait for the girls to do their business, this wouldn’t be a big deal in most cases (unless someone is about to pee their pants).

 

HOWEVER, given the fact that there is more likely to be a line at the girls bathroom, there needs to be a way to give girls more “opportunities” to use the restroom so that they have a better chance to get there when there isn’t a long line.  Whether it’s work, or school, or somewhere else, there needs to be a system where they allow girls more time to pee, or stagger the bathroom breaks so not all the girls are trying to use the bathroom at the same time.  When you have silly school bathroom policies that say that students can’t be late to class and can’t use the bathroom during class, and there are only 4 or 5 minutes between classes and only 5 or 6 toilets in the girls bathroom (and some bathrooms may not have that many girls toilets), it essentially setting up the majority of the school population (at least the girls) to where they have almost no chance to pee the entire day (except may be at lunch time).   The workplace can be just as bad, because if you work an 8 or 9 hour day, you might have two 15 minute breaks, and an hour for lunch, meaning that you essentially have two plus hours of work between each break.  Well, some might say that 15 minutes is plenty of time to use the restroom and have a decent break.  But not if everyone has break at the same time and is trying to use the bathroom at the same time.  Besides that, you might not necessarily NEED to use the bathroom at break time, but you don’t know what might happen an hour or less down the road (the same could apply in the school bathroom scenario between classes).   I could see a teacher asking a student why they didn’t use the bathroom between classes, and the answer might either be “the bathroom line was too long” or “I didn’t really need to go at that time”.  To many teachers and administrators, these just seem like “convenient” excuses for a student to get out of class, but there are times when these actually are legitimate reasons.

Of course, with COVID rearing its ugly head again, there are some people that might try to avoid using public restrooms whenever possible (except to quickly wash their hands) because you just can’t trust that people will do their part to keep the bathrooms or other “common areas” clean.  It’s hard to imagine a scenario where we can even BEGIN to think about bathroom equity when we have bigger problems such as trying to do our part (not just in the United States, but world wide) to put an end to this pandemic, whether it be vaccines, wearing masks, staying home, social distancing, or whatever.

Edited by DesperateQueue (see edit history)
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@DesperateQueue

"The bottom line is that it looks like we have several factors in play that make it hard to believe girls will get the same “restroom” equity as boys

1)  Girls need to pee twice as often (but that doesn’t mean they get the opportunity to so, as you already know).

2). Girls typically take twice as long to pee as boys do, AND they have other feminine needs that the may need to deal with.

3). These two factors alone would suggest that girls need at least 2 or 3 times as many toilets as the boys have toilets/urinals combined HOWEVER

4). Because of restroom space (urinals typically take less space than toilets, and probably cost less), you will probably have less toilets in the girls bathrooms than urinals/toilets combined in the boys bathrooms

5). Therefore, this combination of facts seems to suggest that the girls will often have a bathroom line when the boys do not."

Once again this pretty much hits the nail on the head as to why restroom equity, as much as I care about that issue, is probably not realistic under the circumstances. The Japanese man in the video that I posted seemed like he was more optimistic but he also wasn't considering all of the cost and space issues that would be necessary to address to make these changes that he suggested possible. It sort of a nice idea to think that you can just add restrooms on a large scale like that but in most places it simply isn't realistic or cost effective. So we basically have a situation where girls need the bathroom twice as often, take twice as long and that alone would require four times as many toilets to even bring things up to speed, but right now potty parity laws aren't even trying to give women double in most cases, but just trying to get women to have the equal number of stalls as stalls and urinals in the boys room, which given girls take twice as long and go twice as much would still mean they need 4 times as much.


So as the situation stands right now we have a situation where boys can pee twice as quickly or maybe even faster, don't have to go as often but still get probably as much as double as many places to pee as the girls, which is incredibly unfair, but from a space allocation perspective is pragmatic, but pragmatic of course isn't always fair. It reminds me of my high school situation where before they even closed most of the girls bathrooms the boys still had twice as many places to go and never seem to have a line whereas the girls always had a line. The egalitarian in me is infuriated at the idea but the pragmatist in me has to very begrudgingly admit that it is realistic, cost-effective and pragmatic to give boys more places to go, which again still is totally unfair and extremely frustrating, but makes sense from a coldly logical perspective.

"The only “realistic” way this would change is to give girls more bathroom stalls (which means they need more bathroom space than the boys), or to have more “gender neutral” bathrooms.  This is not very realistic in most places.   With the absence of one of these changes, it’s pretty much a given that girls will frequently have to wait in a long bathroom line, and they’re going to need to be patient.  The boys will also need to be patient with the understanding that the girls will take longer in the bathroom because of the long line and the fact that girls need at least twice as long to pee as boys do.  Although annoying for both the girls that have to wait in line, and the boys who have to wait for the girls to do their business, this wouldn’t be a big deal in most cases (unless someone is about to pee their pants)."

I find it ironic that men would actually find it rather annoying and get inpatient with us when they are the ones who are getting to go to the bathroom and were the ones who have to do the waiting when we have to pee really bad. But again the pragmatist in me is painfully aware that in most cases there is only the possibility of having the equal amount of space for the men's and women's rooms which will result in the women's room of course having less peeing opportunities than the men's room. The only way to increase room in the ladies room would be to decrease room in the men's room, which I think that the men would probably oppose even though they have more than they need when we have not nearly enough.


Once again I have begrudgingly accepted the situation as kind of difficult to solve and I realize it's not as simple as it seems, and in a case where you are not on the verge of an accident yes it's possible to be patient and wait in line, but still when you really have to go having a half hour wait while the boys have nothing still is extremely frustrating, and I don't think that the guys have the right to be impatient with us when were the ones waiting to relieve ourselves when they are able to do so without any wait whatsoever.

"HOWEVER, given the fact that there is more likely to be a line at the girls bathroom, there needs to be a way to give girls more “opportunities” to use the restroom so that they have a better chance to get there when there isn’t a long line.  Whether it’s work, or school, or somewhere else, there needs to be a system where they allow girls more time to pee, or stagger the bathroom breaks so not all the girls are trying to use the bathroom at the same time.  When you have silly school bathroom policies that say that students can’t be late to class and can’t use the bathroom during class, and there are only 4 or 5 minutes between classes and only 5 or 6 toilets in the girls bathroom (and some bathrooms may not have that many girls toilets), it essentially setting up the majority of the school population (at least the girls) to where they have almost no chance to pee the entire day (except may be at lunch time).   The workplace can be just as bad, because if you work an 8 or 9 hour day, you might have two 15 minute breaks, and an hour for lunch, meaning that you essentially have two plus hours of work between each break.  Well, some might say that 15 minutes is plenty of time to use the restroom and have a decent break.  But not if everyone has break at the same time and is trying to use the bathroom at the same time.  Besides that, you might not necessarily NEED to use the bathroom at break time, but you don’t know what might happen an hour or less down the road (the same could apply in the school bathroom scenario between classes).   I could see a teacher asking a student why they didn’t use the bathroom between classes, and the answer might either be “the bathroom line was too long” or “I didn’t really need to go at that time”.  To many teachers and administrators, these just seem like “convenient” excuses for a student to get out of class, but there are times when these actually are legitimate reasons."

I think that here is where we run into the real problem with bathroom scarcity, it's not even so much that women have to wait longer to go to the bathroom, but in situations where there is a limited amount of time to go it very frequently means that that scarcity is pretty much the same as having almost no bathrooms for women whatsoever, and where women are just expected to sort of make do with the absolute bare minimum and if they can't do that then too bad you just have to hold it.
And here is the most difficult area to address because even here I can see how pragmatically speaking it wouldn't always be realistic for women to be able to use the toilet quickly enough in situations where that everyone would be able to get to go with everybody has to go at the same time.


In the school situation, as much as I hated my situation in high school where I was only able to go at lunch, which was especially unfair because the guys had really six times as many places to go when you consider that they closed the girls bathroom unfairly to punish everyone for the actions of a few, if you had everybody going during a different time that would in result in the girls having to miss class which wouldn't be convenient for the teachers or anybody concerned, even though it essentially means failing to acknowledge that at some point during the day the girls should be allowed to pee.

And then of course they are situations like intermissions, half time, rest stops with limited amount of time and other situations where time is limited to use the bathroom where large numbers of women are all going to need to go at the same time and only have that short amount of time in which they can use the bathroom, and in those cases it is unfortunate and then brutally brutally unfair that in a good majority of those situations a majority of women may not get to go at all and just have to keep waiting until the next time. Again the pragmatist in me understands that, but a person who practically likes to go to the bathroom whenever I happen to need one it is incredibly frustrating, as that's a luxury that does not seem to be afforded to women in these situations in most cases.


So the terrible situation that we are forced to deal with is the fact that the "urinary leash" still applies to women in large crowded public situations by and large. The urinary leash being a term that was created that describes how due to lack of bathrooms women are often confined and excluded from public spaces in a way that men are not seeing as society was designed with them in mind. For women going to large public events and gatherings, places where there are only limited amounts of time for bathroom breaks, you have to make the terrible choice between the fact of either just staying home or going out and risking the possibility of having to simply due without the luxury of something as basic as a bathroom for the duration of that event, which not everybody can do.

I guess I am "lucky" in that I now know I can hold it for an extended amount of time but that still doesn't make it less frustrating knowing that you might not get to go to the bathroom. Just because you can hold it doesn't mean that you are going to be wanting to hold it in every situation, particularly if you are out in public and wanting to do things. I don't go to very many crowded public events or places where the time to use the bathroom is limited, but at the same time not going to boycott such events simply because of the bathroom availability or lack thereof, so the price of being a woman out in the world and having a life away from home is sometimes having to hold it for a very long amount of time.


This again is something that I go back to and a lot of my posts but it really does lead me to wonder how many women are just holding in general all day long or for an extended amount of time in any given situation. When you look at all of these crowded situations with little time to use the bathroom it has to be assumed that there are a large number of women who are just stoically and silently and patiently holding very full bladders simply because that's the way it is.


And again as brutally unfair and uncomfortable as these situations can often be I legitimately don't see a real solution anywhere in sight, so I am begrudgingly forced to admit that women will probably have to live with the urinary leash for a long time to come if we want to continue to have public lives.

"Of course, with COVID rearing its ugly head again, there are some people that might try to avoid using public restrooms whenever possible (except to quickly wash their hands) because you just can’t trust that people will do their part to keep the bathrooms or other “common areas” clean.  It’s hard to imagine a scenario where we can even BEGIN to think about bathroom equity when we have bigger problems such as trying to do our part (not just in the United States, but world wide) to put an end to this pandemic, whether it be vaccines, wearing masks, staying home, social distancing, or whatever."

This is precisely why I am going to call my bathroom memoir Woman Desperately Seeking Toilet in Times of Covid. I feel that Covid has been an absolute deathknell to the idea of restroom expansion as now I think were fighting to keep open the ones that already exist. I think that because of Covid for the time being people are encouraged to do without bathrooms in public and that that's probably only going to increase in a while.


I found myself in the unenviable position of finding myself relying on public toilets at my job just at the time when the public restrooms were being closed or badly maintained at a rate that was unprecedented before that and where people were encouraged to only go at home, of course when you can't only good and you find yourself constantly being whipped by the urinary leash nonstop, where you basically have to choose between having a life outside of the home and doing without bathrooms.


So I found myself in the absolute worst position of being outside and outside of the home more than ever before just when everybody else was nice and comfortable at home working with toilets nearby. And I think the fact that a lot of people are now working remotely from home has put the bathroom issue on the back burner. When you are working at home you aren't as concerned about public bathrooms, and when no one's going to big public event the idea of expanding bathrooms sort of becomes not a big issue for anyone and I don't think that anyone's especially concerned with it right now. The paradoxes though that for those who are now out in the public more than ever are having to learn to go without bathrooms like never before and for people like that who until recently included me, and might end up doing so again in the future, it is very frustrating and you really notice the lack of bathrooms more than anyone else because for better or worse your life is now at the mercy of the urinary leash and you can either learn to patiently go on holding it or to let the leash yank you back home. But at least at home there would be toilets!

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I'm not sure to be honest. It's a speed thing that's the issue. I think for the most part women tend to hold their pee longer than guys do in the first place, so when they get to a public restroom there is a longer line because holding your pee longer means also a longer pee. Not to include taking pants off..putting them back on..a guy just walks to a urinal, unzips..does his thing, rezips and is done. For the most part as far as I know guys also don't tend to hold their pee as long as women do unless they have no choice.

That's really the only thing I can think of, I mean I've been at events a handful of times where a woman just had to go so bad she just went into the mens room while there were guys in there, went to a stall to pee because she simply could not wait longer from how long the line was and how long it was taking. (Personally I don't have an issue with this, when you gotta go you gotta go)

Maybe if society gets mature enough to the point we have universal intergender public restrooms? It's speed it up for women, might slow it up a tad for the guys, but it'd be somewhere in the middle..

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@Jay Loo

"I'm not sure to be honest. It's a speed thing that's the issue. I think for the most part women tend to hold their pee longer than guys do in the first place, so when they get to a public restroom there is a longer line because holding your pee longer means also a longer pee. Not to include taking pants off..putting them back on..a guy just walks to a urinal, unzips..does his thing, rezips and is done. For the most part as far as I know guys also don't tend to hold their pee as long as women do unless they have no choice."

But again it's a combination of factors that compound the situation. Women have to go more often, take longer to go and have fewer places to go so it's a recipe for catastrophe. But it also is very very quick for a guy to go to the bathroom where as women it's like a whole big process and everything. And you are right the longer that you are holding where women often have to keep putting it off and putting it off the bigger and bigger the lines get so that when you finally do get to a bathroom the lines are often stupendous which makes the situation even more frustrating.

"That's really the only thing I can think of, I mean I've been at events a handful of times where a woman just had to go so bad she just went into the mens room while there were guys in there, went to a stall to pee because she simply could not wait longer from how long the line was and how long it was taking. (Personally I don't have an issue with this, when you gotta go you gotta go)"

I think that plenty of women have resorted to that when situations demand it, whereas the opposite is never the case, you never see a man waiting for a bathroom and having to use the ladies room is the men's room is too long. Once again it's a still frustrating situation because the men are guaranteed a chance to go to the bathroom whereas the women it's taken as a given that we will just go on holding it in most cases.

"Maybe if society gets mature enough to the point we have universal intergender public restrooms? It's speed it up for women, might slow it up a tad for the guys, but it'd be somewhere in the middle.."

This is something I have thought as well but I have found that some unisex bathrooms emphasize urinals which wouldn't help women at all it would just provide another situation where women are shortchanged on toilets than stalls while men still have the fast pass from the urinals.

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@DesperateJill

"I think that plenty of women have resorted to that when situations demand it, whereas the opposite is never the case, you never see a man waiting for a bathroom and having to use the ladies room is the men's room is too long."

To be honest, and it's off topic, if I needed to and it was the only option I'd consider it..being a guy and going into a ladies room. But there is also a bit of a double standard there I think, where as I believe most guys would be ok if a woman really needed to go and she walks into a mens room. A guy is looked at different if he goes into a ladies room..at least that is my perception. While I've been in a mens room by myself and a girl I worked with said she needed to fix her hair real quick but didn't want to run down to the ladies room, I told her to come in, I didn't care. We were at the mirror just chatting while she did her hair quick and I washed my hands. I don't see that being a thing the other way around I think. One time I did go into a ladies room, but asked a female co-worker to make sure nobody comes...because the mens room was actually out of service for the day. That was the only time I've done that though..if I really need to, I'll find a place outside if it demands it. (This is actually made difficult where I live, because you can get a fine for public urination)

 

"This is something I have thought as well but I have found that some unisex bathrooms emphasize urinals which wouldn't help women at all it would just provide another situation where women are shortchanged on toilets than stalls while men still have the fast pass from the urinals."

Yes, I didn't put that much thought into this, kind of just threw it out there. Not sure if unisex bathrooms would actually help anything. The only thing I can figure is, at most public places...thinking mostly events, there's a men's room and a women's room. If there were two unisex bathrooms maybe that could help? Or maybe it wouldn't, I actually really don't know to be honest what a solution would be. There's many factors that woman tend to that men don't. Like was mentioned above, women's rooms also have less stalls because of the size of them while men's rooms have a good number of urinals PLUS stalls..if urinals are taken guys will just go to an empty stall. (I mean how often do people really use stalls for a number 2 in public anyway unless there is something bad with their stomach) I think I just added to the speed of the men's line actually with that.

How would a woman urinal look like that could take up less space and have more of them in a women's room?

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@Jay Loo

"Yes, I didn't put that much thought into this, kind of just threw it out there. Not sure if unisex bathrooms would actually help anything. The only thing I can figure is, at most public places...thinking mostly events, there's a men's room and a women's room. If there were two unisex bathrooms maybe that could help? Or maybe it wouldn't, I actually really don't know to be honest what a solution would be. There's many factors that woman tend to that men don't. Like was mentioned above, women's rooms also have less stalls because of the size of them while men's rooms have a good number of urinals PLUS stalls..if urinals are taken guys will just go to an empty stall. (I mean how often do people really use stalls for a number 2 in public anyway unless there is something bad with their stomach) I think I just added to the speed of the men's line actually with that.

How would a woman urinal look like that could take up less space and have more of them in a women's room?"

Female urinals have been tried in some places but never seem to have been very popular or efficient the way male urinals are and I can't see them really becoming common. But yes the fact that men have a row of stalls and often have urinals in addition to that automatically gives double or triple as many places to go, so women often have a half to third as many places to go while at the same time taking twice as long and having to go more often so once again the worst of all possible worlds.

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But would and do women counteract this long line issue by simply drinking less when going out then guys and this in turn has mitigated longer lines for the restrooms? 

 

Also, how long on average in terms of seconds/mins do women spend in a stall and what is considered long and short time in the stall

 

What if women didnt have to wait in line and guys did -->would women try and rub it into guys face?

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@Angusburger

"But would and do women counteract this long line issue by simply drinking less when going out then guys and this in turn has mitigated longer lines for the restrooms?"

I'm sure that some do although I think that the average person doesn't consider the restroom until they need to go at which point it's too late. I think most people will just drink normally and then not think about the bathroom until they need it and then only then if they encounter a line does it become a problem. But I think that most people don't actively plan for it.

"Also, how long on average in terms of seconds/mins do women spend in a stall and what is considered long and short time in the stall"

I remember a study was done that showed that women spent about three minutes in the bathroom on average whereas men spent about 90 seconds and that sounds about right to me.

"What if women didnt have to wait in line and guys did -->would women try and rub it into guys face?"

Some probably would but most probably wouldn't in all honesty. Honestly unless you are a vindictive person or have a fetish I think that most people just don't even think about these matters at all. Although I feel for guys suddenly started having to wait in line they wouldn't be as patient as women have been all this time because they wouldn't be used to the situation. But I think that the average woman if she had no line and the men did have a line probably wouldn't give it much thought or even notice it all that much much like the guys do with the women's line for the most part.


Of course it's hard to say though is I have never recalled being in a situation where there was no line for the women's room in the line for the men's room with astonishing, that is certainly a very very rare occurrence indeed!

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To be honest, considering how steong my omorashi fetish is, not to be or sound mean it anything but nah I hope it is never as easy for women as it is for men and also the long lines or lack of bathrooms for women or the bathrooms being closed all together I'm sure As well as hope it will never change. I mean if all of that changed then it would take the fun, excitement and sexieness out of omorashi! Sure they do have various devices to make it slightly easier for women to pee but how many of them really go and buy that? It's pretty much just always going to be that in certain situations, women might have to just keep holding it in and have no choice but to stay desperate for however long it takes for them to get to a toilet.. Which makes guys with this fetish have more fun! Maybe not so much for the ladies but thats just how it is. As a woman you should just train yourself to be able to hold more for longer periods of time, smaller bladders aside you just know that sometimes you might have to hold it in for a number of hours or so until you can find relief so you might as well just train yourself and get used to it! That way when it happens it won't be too much of a shock to you. Again not to sound mean but thats just how it is for the most part! Sorry to all the ladies who have had to stay desperate for hours or even hold so long that you burst and wet yourself but hey, it is super freaking sexy! And yall guys and girls wouldn't be on this site if you didn't think the same and you ladies didnt take some pleasure in all that to some extent at least

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11 hours ago, TheBladderBoss said:

To be honest, considering how steong my omorashi fetish is, not to be or sound mean it anything but nah I hope it is never as easy for women as it is for men and also the long lines or lack of bathrooms for women or the bathrooms being closed all together I'm sure As well as hope it will never change. I mean if all of that changed then it would take the fun, excitement and sexieness out of omorashi! Sure they do have various devices to make it slightly easier for women to pee but how many of them really go and buy that? It's pretty much just always going to be that in certain situations, women might have to just keep holding it in and have no choice but to stay desperate for however long it takes for them to get to a toilet.. Which makes guys with this fetish have more fun! Maybe not so much for the ladies but thats just how it is. As a woman you should just train yourself to be able to hold more for longer periods of time, smaller bladders aside you just know that sometimes you might have to hold it in for a number of hours or so until you can find relief so you might as well just train yourself and get used to it! That way when it happens it won't be too much of a shock to you. Again not to sound mean but thats just how it is for the most part! Sorry to all the ladies who have had to stay desperate for hours or even hold so long that you burst and wet yourself but hey, it is super freaking sexy! And yall guys and girls wouldn't be on this site if you didn't think the same and you ladies didnt take some pleasure in all that to some extent at least

But even as a guy, such mindset and view is unfair though cause its not like women chose to not have a penis and hence having to hold it in longer but maybe that is what causes the fetish? If you were a girl, would you feel jealous or just accept it?

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