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The Problem With Bathroom Scarcity: When There Is a Bathroom but There Isn't Enough so That There Technically Isn't One


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On 12/20/2021 at 6:19 AM, DesperateJill said:

@DesperateQueue

"I’d say it’s a bad situation all the way around.  The only thing I can really think of though is if they’re already late, they might as well go ahead and use the bathroom.  Although it may be frowned upon, it’s not like they lock the bathrooms up when class is supposed to be in session, do they?  Teachers and administrators may not like it, but at least it allows the students to get the relief they need before heading to class, even if it is 15 minutes late.  It just depends on how desperate their need is.  I don’t think teachers and administrators would get away with this kind of bathroom policy nowadays."

It really was a terrible situation all around, and like I said in my last post I think this is true everywhere not just that schools but just for women's bathroom access in general particularly when there is only a limited amount of time to use the bathroom. They didn't lock the bathrooms between classes other than locking those other two bathrooms on the second and third floor during those last couple of years.


If a student was 15 minutes late the teacher would really be pretty annoyed with them I think and although I would like to think that maybe now they couldn't get away with that I am sure that I wouldn't be surprised if this was still a policy at my school seeing as I heard that the drug problem increased after I graduated and that relatively recently the school had a big problem with drugs and alcohol. And with that on top of Covid it wouldn't be surprising to me if they still had these policies in place.


Again like you said it's a terrible situation all around, but even I have to admit that I don't necessarily see a solution that would work out well for the girls in this scenario. Even before they locked the girls bathroom the situation wasn't great, although after they locked the bathroom the situation was just nightmarish. But short of giving the girls significantly more toilets than they had already I don't think that there was ever going to be a case where the majority of girls could go to the bathroom the majority of time between class.


And I feel like maybe this should be a threat all of its own was a poll as I am starting to become more resigned to the fact that there might just not be a solution, at least not a very practical solution, to these problems.

As you yourself admitted, the bathroom situation was horrible when they locked the other two girls bathrooms, but I want to ask you about before that point in time.  I am guessing you had three girls bathrooms with 5 stalls each for around 750 girls (15 stalls total) and with 4 minutes between classes.  How long were the girls bathroom lines in that scenario, and how often did you find yourself in a position where you were about to pee your pants, but didn’t have time to wait in line, pee, and get to class on time?

Edited by DesperateQueue (see edit history)
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@DesperateQueue

"As you yourself admitted, the bathroom situation was horrible when they locked the other two girls bathrooms, but I want to ask you about before that point in time.  I am guessing you had three girls bathrooms with 5 stalls each for around 750 girls (15 stalls total) and with 4 minutes between classes.  How long were the girls bathroom lines in that scenario, and how often did you find yourself in a position where you were about to pee your pants, but didn’t have to wait in line, pee, and get to class on time?"

Even before they locked the other girls bathrooms there was often lines between class but I would try to go between every class so that at least every once in a while I would be able to get in and go to the bathroom without being late to class. It's just when they had all three bathrooms I had the option to try pretty much between every class so I never really got to the stage where I was usually desperate. Usually after a couple of periods you would be able to get into the bathroom without a significant wait. That's why my friends thought it was kind of funny when they saw me pushing on all of the locked bathroom doors because I was such a habit of going to the bathroom at every given opportunity and when they locked two of the bathrooms my opportunities diminished quite significantly.

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8 hours ago, DesperateJill said:

@DesperateQueue

"As you yourself admitted, the bathroom situation was horrible when they locked the other two girls bathrooms, but I want to ask you about before that point in time.  I am guessing you had three girls bathrooms with 5 stalls each for around 750 girls (15 stalls total) and with 4 minutes between classes.  How long were the girls bathroom lines in that scenario, and how often did you find yourself in a position where you were about to pee your pants, but didn’t have to wait in line, pee, and get to class on time?"

Even before they locked the other girls bathrooms there was often lines between class but I would try to go between every class so that at least every once in a while I would be able to get in and go to the bathroom without being late to class. It's just when they had all three bathrooms I had the option to try pretty much between every class so I never really got to the stage where I was usually desperate. Usually after a couple of periods you would be able to get into the bathroom without a significant wait. That's why my friends thought it was kind of funny when they saw me pushing on all of the locked bathroom doors because I was such a habit of going to the bathroom at every given opportunity and when they locked two of the bathrooms my opportunities diminished quite significantly.

It’s amazing what a difference it makes when all the bathrooms are open vs only one bathroom.  Something that hasn’t gotten mentioned is how the line situation is impacted if one or more toilets are “out of order” for one reason or another (especially with only one bathroom being open).  That would mean a longer bathroom line and one or two less toilets available.  (For example, if you originally had 5 toilets, you may only have 3 or 4 toilets available).  Have you ever encountered that in that school setting, and if so, did the school make “allowances” for being late because of less toilets being available?

Edited by DesperateQueue (see edit history)
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@DesperateQueue

"It’s amazing what a difference it makes when all the bathrooms are open vs only one bathroom.  Something that hasn’t gotten mentioned is how the line situation is impacted if one or more toilets are “out of order” for one reason or another (especially with only one bathroom being open).  That would mean a longer bathroom line and one or two less toilets available.  (For example, if you originally had 5 toilets, you may only have 3 or 4 toilets available).  Have you ever encountered that in that school setting, and if so, did the school make “allowances” for being late because of less toilets being available?"

Yes when there was also originally a woefully inadequate amount reducing that by a third makes it exponentially worse to the point where it's almost like having no bathroom at all. And yes if a bathroom or a toilet was out of order that would make things worse although fortunately I don't recall that happening very much.


But the teachers didn't really make allowance for the fact that it was impossible to go to the bathroom between classes, you were supposed to go to the bathroom on your own time and if you were late that was your fault. Teachers generally didn't allow people to go during class at all as you were supposed to go during between classes, but again I don't think that most teachers even considered the fact that for most female students that simply wasn't possible. Again it's a situation while they technically had a toilet available it was so woefully inadequate and so impossible to use most of the time that it pretty much was the same as having a no bathroom situation unless you just happen to be lucky to get in there and find no line, which was rare.

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In my high school a student in the composition & literature wing walking to class in the science wing would barely get to class on time.  Then walking from science to physical education posed the same problem.   In my real high-school experience I could cope by drinking 25% to 30% the healthy liquid quantity.  Age 15 I had one occasion where a little extra liquid at lunch lead to needing to get excused and leaking a little before reaching a urinal.  If I drank healthy quantities and our restroom access where reduced. . .

If it were a female me in today's schools, I imagine:

1.  A little leakage once would have become daily accidents.

2.  With the same, but more adaptable mother, she might have contacted a parent with a son and a daughter in the school.  The son could have escorted his sister and me into a boy's room where we could use "Go Girls."

3.  If the school officials objected to Go Girls, our parents could supply high-capacity teen diapers.  Of course the high-capacity diapers would make our clothing puff out.

4.  If the school officials objected to diapers, our district had attorneys (and doctors) who had recently won battles against the city for arresting and detaining minors without due process.

Through all that, the city's Daily Fish Wrapper would have happily cut the parking-violations column to report an issue with new developments daily.  I think this would have happened because, about six years after I graduated, the high-school across town imposed a restroom lock out.  No Go Girls then.  But otherwise the situation developed roughly as above.

 

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@Stanley79

"In my high school a student in the composition & literature wing walking to class in the science wing would barely get to class on time.  Then walking from science to physical education posed the same problem."

Yes this is true four minutes is hardly enough time to get to class let alone also use the bathroom and I don't know how anybody actually managed to go to their lockers regularly on top of that. I pretty much carried all of my books around in my backpack and probably damaged my back by doing so because I never had time to visit my locker except at lunch time since they don't take attendance at lunch. Luckily during the years they locked all of the bathrooms there was a bathroom in the locker rooms in the gym so on days when I had gym class I got an extra bathroom visit in.


In college it wasn't really a problem though since even though you had to walk from one building to another if you are say going from science to English or whatever there was usually at least 15 minutes between class if you had a class immediately following that, and often you had several periods of time in between, so you might not have another class for an hour or two giving you more than enough time to use the bathroom.

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On 9/22/2022 at 8:58 AM, DesperateJill said:

 

Yes when there was also originally a woefully inadequate amount reducing that by a third makes it exponentially worse to the point where it's almost like having no bathroom at all. And yes if a bathroom or a toilet was out of order that would make things worse although fortunately I don't recall that happening very much.


But the teachers didn't really make allowance for the fact that it was impossible to go to the bathroom between classes, you were supposed to go to the bathroom on your own time and if you were late that was your fault. Teachers generally didn't allow people to go during class at all as you were supposed to go during between classes, but again I don't think that most teachers even considered the fact that for most female students that simply wasn't possible. Again it's a situation while they technically had a toilet available it was so woefully inadequate and so impossible to use most of the time that it pretty much was the same as having a no bathroom situation unless you just happen to be lucky to get in there and find no line, which was rare.

Even years later, I still don’t understand how teachers and administrators assume that if a student is late because of using the bathroom (especially the girls), then it’s “their own fault”, especially during the time when only bathroom was open, which means that if your previous class isn’t near that lone bathroom, you might as well forget about using the bathroom between classes, because by the time you get there (assuming that lone bathroom is on your way to your next class), there will inevitably be a line by the time you get in there (especially for the girls).  By the time you factor in the time to get to the restroom, wait in line, pee, and head to your next class, you can’t get all that done in 4 minutes (unless there is no line), and that doesn’t take into account visits to your locker.  Although the distance from classes and time waiting in line can vary, one thing that we can safely assume (especially for the girls), is that it takes them at least a minute to pee, and if they wash their hands (which they should, but probably not time for that after they wait in line and pee), that’s another 20 or 30 seconds.  Furthermore, the longer it takes you to get to the restroom, the more likely there is to be a line.  How is that the students fault (especially the girls) when there is only one restroom open because of the administrators decision to close them down because of too much smoking or illegal drugs, and because of that, there’s a long line at that one restroom between almost every single class?

Edited by DesperateQueue (see edit history)
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@DesperateQueue

"Even years later, I still don’t understand how teachers and administrators assume that if a student is late because of using the bathroom (especially the girls), then it’s “their own fault”, especially during the time when only bathroom was open, which means that if your previous class isn’t near that lone bathroom, you might as well forget about using the bathroom between between classes, because by the time you get there (assuming that lone bathroom is on your way to your next class), there will inevitably be a line by the time you get in there (especially for the girls).  By the time you factor in the time to get to the restroom, wait in line, pee, and head to your next class, you can’t get all that done in 4 minutes (unless there is no line), and that doesn’t take into account visits to your locker.  Although the distance from classes and time waiting in line can vary, one thing that we can safely assume (especially for the girls), is that it takes them at least a minute to pee, and if they wash their hands (which they should, but probably not time for that after they wait in line and pee), that’s another 20 or 30 seconds.  Furthermore, the longer it takes you to get to the restroom, the more likely there is to be a line.  How is that the students fault (especially the girls) when there is only one restroom open because of the administrators decision to close them down because of too much smoking or illegal drugs, and because of that, there’s a long line at that one restroom between almost every single class?"

I think once again the reason why so many people develop this fetish as a result of school experiences is because teachers view going to the bathroom as a privilege not as a fundamental right. It's another one of those situations where although bathrooms are necessity that everybody uses they are more of an afterthought and if you can't use it on your own time as far as the teacher is concerned that's not their problem. But then again I think the teachers have their own staff restroom so what do they care about whether the students are getting to go to the bathroom?

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7 hours ago, DesperateJill said:

@DesperateQueue

"Even years later, I still don’t understand how teachers and administrators assume that if a student is late because of using the bathroom (especially the girls), then it’s “their own fault”, especially during the time when only bathroom was open, which means that if your previous class isn’t near that lone bathroom, you might as well forget about using the bathroom between between classes, because by the time you get there (assuming that lone bathroom is on your way to your next class), there will inevitably be a line by the time you get in there (especially for the girls).  By the time you factor in the time to get to the restroom, wait in line, pee, and head to your next class, you can’t get all that done in 4 minutes (unless there is no line), and that doesn’t take into account visits to your locker.  Although the distance from classes and time waiting in line can vary, one thing that we can safely assume (especially for the girls), is that it takes them at least a minute to pee, and if they wash their hands (which they should, but probably not time for that after they wait in line and pee), that’s another 20 or 30 seconds.  Furthermore, the longer it takes you to get to the restroom, the more likely there is to be a line.  How is that the students fault (especially the girls) when there is only one restroom open because of the administrators decision to close them down because of too much smoking or illegal drugs, and because of that, there’s a long line at that one restroom between almost every single class?"

I think once again the reason why so many people develop this fetish as a result of school experiences is because teachers view going to the bathroom as a privilege not as a fundamental right. It's another one of those situations where although bathrooms are necessity that everybody uses they are more of an afterthought and if you can't use it on your own time as far as the teacher is concerned that's not their problem. But then again I think the teachers have their own staff restroom so what do they care about whether the students are getting to go to the bathroom?

I had a 5th grade teacher that was strict with bathrooms. I remember a guy wanted to pee but got told to hold it and he complained to his table that his bladder hurts 30 mins later. Another more epic one was sadly another guy and I dont know the story/context but suddenly he was shaking his leg and bent over at the table saying he really needs to go and eventually was allowed to but idk why he kept quiet for so long. 

 

We did have a field trip to the museum and the girls were taking a while and the guys were all waiting outside. The teacher, a female, asked where are all the girls what is taking them so long. Eventually the chatter started amongst the guys and  a guy was like its because we can just stand right that we are so quick and dont have to sit. 

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My high school had very inadequate bathrooms. I think each one had only 4 stalls and the teachers almost never let anyone leave in the middle of class, so the only opportunity to pee came at lunch or in between classes. If I didn’t get to a stall within maybe 30 seconds after class finished, the line would be much too long for everyone to get a chance to pee. I did see many frustrated girls leave the line early  because they were afraid of being late to class, including me. I was a minute or two late several times because I had to pee, and they gave me after school detention. Don’t even get me started on the bathrooms lines during lunch, because that was the time everyone tried to pee. A few times, if they found something like cigarettes in the bathrooms, the bathrooms would be locked for the whole day, sometimes multiple, and that happened numerous times. That whole situation was an absolute nightmare for me and caused me to have many leaks and accidents. Thank god for the school nurse though, she knew of my bladder problems and insisted to my teachers that they let me pee whenever I asked too (sometimes they did, sometimes not), and if I came to her office, she would let me use the bathroom in her office. 

On 1/9/2022 at 6:44 AM, DesperateJill said:

.

"I wonder if girls in your school just drank less to not go to the bathroom at much especailly if they have a. test and dont want to take a test with a full bladder"

I think that would be the wise thing to do but most people in high school aren't the brightest people in the world and often take a cavalier attitude towards the bathroom even when they know they aren't going to get to go to the bathroom for a long time. But I can't recall ever seeing anybody have an accident, so I guess most people managed to make do or navigate the situation effectively.

I tried to limit my fluid intake as well, but it would only delay the inevitable and the urge to pee would catch up with me later in the day.

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@Mary127

"My high school had very inadequate bathrooms. I think each one had only 4 stalls and the teachers almost never let anyone leave in the middle of class, so the only opportunity to pee came at lunch or in between classes. If I didn’t get to a stall within maybe 30 seconds after class finished, the line would be much too long for everyone to get a chance to pee. I did see many frustrated girls leave the line early  because they were afraid of being late to class, including me. I was a minute or two late several times because I had to pee, and they gave me after school detention. Don’t even get me started on the bathrooms lines during lunch, because that was the time everyone tried to pee."

That was pretty much the way things were in my school where if you weren't the first one into the bathroom you pretty much would have to walk away without going or risk being late and that was true even before they closed the other two bathrooms which is why I would try to go between every class if possible because if there was a line that means you would have to hold it for another period.


Of course after they closed the rest of the bathrooms pretty much the only time I got to go was at lunch and then I was like 20 minutes. It was a good thing though that I never cared about eating in school as I just never ate in school because I found the whole atmosphere of a cafeteria to be disgusting and I pretty much only ate fast food so I would just go most of the day without eating and never really bothered me.

"A few times, if they found something like cigarettes in the bathrooms, the bathrooms would be locked for the whole day, sometimes multiple, and that happened numerous times. That whole situation was an absolute nightmare for me and caused me to have many leaks and accidents."

I still don't understand how they could lock all of the bathrooms. I mean leaving only one open was pretty much the same as that but I still don't understand how they can get away with not having bathrooms for students at all. In our school they closed the two of the girls bathroom for like the last year or two but I guess the way they saw it again was if they figured they had one bathroom open however profoundly inadequate that nobody could say that they didn't provide bathrooms. The fact that nobody could really use them in a sufficient amount of time didn't seem to be of concern to the school administrators.

"Thank god for the school nurse though, she knew of my bladder problems and insisted to my teachers that they let me pee whenever I asked too (sometimes they did, sometimes not), and if I came to her office, she would let me use the bathroom in her office."

It is kind of ridiculous that you would need like special permission or a special condition just to be able to use the bathroom at all, again it really is insane when you think of it.

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@DesperateJill

I am trying to think about the math on bathroom usage throughout the school day, for what you dealt with and I know about the 4 minutes and number of stalls and number of girls.  But how many class periods did you have, how long was the lunch periods, and how many lunch shifts were there (meaning did everyone go to lunch at once, or was it divided into two or three lunch shifts).

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2 hours ago, Mary127 said:

My high school had very inadequate bathrooms. I think each one had only 4 stalls and the teachers almost never let anyone leave in the middle of class, so the only opportunity to pee came at lunch or in between classes. If I didn’t get to a stall within maybe 30 seconds after class finished, the line would be much too long for everyone to get a chance to pee. I did see many frustrated girls leave the line early  because they were afraid of being late to class, including me. I was a minute or two late several times because I had to pee, and they gave me after school detention. Don’t even get me started on the bathrooms lines during lunch, because that was the time everyone tried to pee. A few times, if they found something like cigarettes in the bathrooms, the bathrooms would be locked for the whole day, sometimes multiple, and that happened numerous times. That whole situation was an absolute nightmare for me and caused me to have many leaks and accidents. Thank god for the school nurse though, she knew of my bladder problems and insisted to my teachers that they let me pee whenever I asked too (sometimes they did, sometimes not), and if I came to her office, she would let me use the bathroom in her office. 

I tried to limit my fluid intake as well, but it would only delay the inevitable and the urge to pee would catch up with me later in the day.

How long were your classes, and how much time did you have between classes?

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@DesperateQueue

"I am trying to think about the math on bathroom usage throughout the school day, for what you dealt with and I know about the 4 minutes and number of stalls and number of girls.  But how many class periods did you have, how long was the lunch periods, and how many lunch shifts were there (meaning did everyone go to lunch at once, or was it divided into two or three lunch shifts)."

I remember that I actually did the math for this once and I probably posted in a different thread or in my blog. But I remember reading that there were 1500 students at my school so I would assume a 50-50 male-female split so that would result in 750 girls for five toilets which results in about one toilet for every 150 girls. With five stalls and four minutes between class I estimate that maybe 10 girls can go to the bathroom without being late to class period tops. Even before they closed all of the other bathrooms you multiply that by three and that's only about 30 girls so mathematically speaking it doesn't work out where the majority of girls can use the bathroom the majority of the time.


In our school I think if I remember correctly we had like four separate lunch periods. There were nine periods in a day and you could have lunch either fourth period, fifth period, Sixth period or seventh. And a lot of people didn't like that because some people prefer to have lunch early in some preferred it later. I didn't really care because I found eating at school disgusting and never ate lunch but I was definitely looking forward to lunch a lot more that year when they closed all the bathrooms. I can't remember which specific period hat I had lunch but it was late enough that I was getting pretty antsy by then!


Even before they locked all of the bathrooms lunch was pretty much the only time I ever visited my locker all day either.

"How long were your classes, and how much time did you have between classes?"

I think that each class was about 42 minutes or 45 minutes, something like that and the time between classes was four minutes.

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5 hours ago, DesperateJill said:

@DesperateQueue

"I am trying to think about the math on bathroom usage throughout the school day, for what you dealt with and I know about the 4 minutes and number of stalls and number of girls.  But how many class periods did you have, how long was the lunch periods, and how many lunch shifts were there (meaning did everyone go to lunch at once, or was it divided into two or three lunch shifts)."

I remember that I actually did the math for this once and I probably posted in a different thread or in my blog. But I remember reading that there were 1500 students at my school so I would assume a 50-50 male-female split so that would result in 750 girls for five toilets which results in about one toilet for every 150 girls. With five stalls and four minutes between class I estimate that maybe 10 girls can go to the bathroom without being late to class period tops. Even before they closed all of the other bathrooms you multiply that by three and that's only about 30 girls so mathematically speaking it doesn't work out where the majority of girls can use the bathroom the majority of the time.


In our school I think if I remember correctly we had like four separate lunch periods. There were nine periods in a day and you could have lunch either fourth period, fifth period, Sixth period or seventh. And a lot of people didn't like that because some people prefer to have lunch early in some preferred it later. I didn't really care because I found eating at school disgusting and never ate lunch but I was definitely looking forward to lunch a lot more that year when they closed all the bathrooms. I can't remember which specific period hat I had lunch but it was late enough that I was getting pretty antsy by then!


Even before they locked all of the bathrooms lunch was pretty much the only time I ever visited my locker all day either.

"How long were your classes, and how much time did you have between classes?"

I think that each class was about 42 minutes or 45 minutes, something like that and the time between classes was four minutes.

I see.  I guess if you consider the case where all bathrooms were opened, a maximum of 30 girls could use the restroom between classes without being late (2 girls per each of the 15 stalls in the three bathrooms combined).  If your lucky, you “might” be able to squeeze in three girls per stall in that time frame without being late, but that would be pushing it.  So if you have 9 periods, that is 8 class chances, so multiply 8 by 30, that means 240 girls can pee without being late.  Factor in the 4 lunch periods, if we assumed 42 minutes for that, and 15 stalls, you could get 30 girls per stall for each lunch period, so that is 450 girls per lunch period, but that’s assuming all bathrooms are open.  If only the one girls bathroom is open, that would be around 150 girls that get a chance to pee per lunch period.  And if you assume the 750 girls are evenly spread out over the four lunch periods, that’s Aron’s 187 girls per lunch period.  It would mean that most girls get a chance to pee on their lunch break, but not all of them.

You had mentioned a large bathroom line at lunch during those periods when you finally had a chance to pee.  But how long?  In particular, was the bathroom line so long that it actually went out of the bathroom and into the hallway?  How long can the bathroom line be before it spills out into the hallway?

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@DesperateQueue

"You had mentioned a large bathroom line at lunch during those periods when you finally had a chance to pee.  But how long?  In particular, was the bathroom line so long that it actually went out of the bathroom and into the hallway?  How long can the bathroom line be before it spills out into the hallway?"

It varies based on how quickly I managed to get there and the bathroom on the first floor was actually in the hallway on the way to the cafeteria, so at least that was convenient. But sometimes it seemed as though the line could last like maybe half of lunch and occasionally it would spill out into the hallway but usually if you see the line coming out into the hallway most people will look at that and be like forget it I'm not going to be able to make it and walk away. So I do think that the line is limited by the fact that if you didn't get in there relatively quickly you probably see the line as you walk past the bathroom and you are just like no, forget it, damn!

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In my highschool there was only one girl's bathroom for maybe 500 girls and I had physical education first period so naturally I would drink alot of water and I had 3 minutes to get to my next class and the bathroom lines were always really long so I had no other option but to hold it in and it wasn't easy to hold it all day.

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7 minutes ago, Karly_cr said:

In my highschool there was only one girl's bathroom for maybe 500 girls and I had physical education first period so naturally I would drink alot of water and I had 3 minutes to get to my next class and the bathroom lines were always really long so I had no other option but to hold it in and it wasn't easy to hold it all day.

That sucks.  How many toilets were there in that girl’s bathroom?  And wow, only 3 minutes between classes?  I thought 4 or 5 minutes was “short” for passing time (especially if the expectation was to use the bathroom during passing time and still get to class on time).

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3 minutes ago, Karly_cr said:

There was only 5 toilets in the bathroom

Uh, yeah.  That’s not good.  5 toilets in the bathroom for 500 girls, so that means that at BEST you could MAYBE get 2 students per stall within those 3 minutes (so 10 girls out of 500).  Not good.  How long were your actual class periods, and did teachers allow students to use the bathroom during class (assuming they asked “nicely”)? Did they allow students to be late if they were using the bathroom?

Edited by DesperateQueue (see edit history)
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