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The end of internet porn as we know it


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Last Friday (12/18/20) a new piece of legislation was introduced before U.S. senate called the Stop Internet Sexual Exploitation Act.  This act would apply to any site that hosts adult material.  The requirements are such that it would effectively make it impossible for any site to allow user posted content.

Here are some of the key requirements-

  • Any user who uploads adult material would have to provide proof of their true identity to that site.  Under this legislation, if you uploaded a video to omorashi.org, you would have submit a copy of your legal ID.  Omorashi.org would be required to keep a database of the true identity of the uploaders for all content.
  • Every performer / every individual who appears in a video would have to submit a signed consent form allowing that site to host the video.  So, for example, you couldn't upload a youtube video you found, or a clips4sale video you bought, or a scene from an old VHS tape you ordered, as the performers would all have to sign a consent form.  Omorashi.org, or whatever other site you are uploading to, would  be required to keep a copy of the consent form.
  • Sites would have to contain instructions for how to request the removal of a video. So if someone wanted a video of themselves removed, they would have a clear path to do so.
  • Sites would also be required to operate a 24 hour telephone hotline for individuals and law enforcement to request the immediate removal of a video.  Videos would have to be removed within 2 hours after the call.
  • Sites would also have to maintain a list or database of individuals who have requested they do not want to appear on the site.  Any newly uploaded material would have to be checked against this do-not-upload list before appearing on a platform.

Further considerations-

How might this affect sites that are not hosted in the USA?

When it comes to the internet, the reach of US law is surprisingly broad.  A US based business can not provide support for something that is illegal within the US.  So, even if a site attempts to circumvent these restrictions by going with a hosting provider not located in the United States, they could still face issues with financial/payment providers, domain name registrations, DNS providers, and other requisite businesses they would need to rely on to stay online.  It isn't impossible, but it would be very difficult.  It would also be even more difficult for users to find such a site.

In the case of omorashi sites, is pants wetting really considered pornographic?

This law cites USC 18 S.2257 for providing a definition of pornographic material.  There are multiple things that could make a depiction pornographic under this law, but the relevant wording as to how it might apply to omo is the "graphic or simulated lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area of any person."  Clothed or unclothed is not a requirement.  So, for most wetting content, the public area is being exhibited, but is this exhibition lascivious?

In American legal-speak the word lascivious is term indicating immoral sexual actions, words, thoughts, anything lustful, or of sexual indulgence.  So, in the terms of omo as qualifying as a lascivious display of the public area, I think we have to say as yes, it qualifies.  The public area is on display, albeit clothed, and the display is indeed lascivious, as it exists for lustful purposes or is being viewed for the purpose of sexual indulgence.

There are so many sites out there, will the authorities really go after all of them?

No.  Of course not.  But, if you were operating such a site, is that really a risk you would want to take?  Would you really risk a lengthy prison sentence over hosting free porn?  Plus, the authorities don't need to go after all these sites individually to shut them down.  The service providers they rely on, like their hosting companies and payment providers, will refuse to do business with them if they are not in legal compliance.

What about American free speech?  How could the first amendment allow such a law?

It is possible that this law could be challenged and struck down on a constitutional basis.  The first version of 18.2257 was struck down by the supreme court by being unconstitutionally vague when it came to defining pornography, and thus was found to illegally restrict free speech.  The problem is that you need someone who is willing to challenge such a law before the courts.  In US law that person must have standing, which basically means you need to be in violation of the law, have the authorities come after you, but argue it as a constitutional issue.  Then, you have to hope the case makes it to the supreme court and that the court agrees with your interpretation.  Taking on this fight would be monumentally risk, as if you lose you could go to prison for a long time,and insanely expensive.  You could easily spend millions of dollars on legal fees taking on such a fight.

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I'm not from the USA, but hopefully this isn't as bad as it initially looks. A lot of the time with laws like this, either nothing happens afterwards or the law become so unenforcable that it gets repealed quickly. I can't imagine that any government would spend money actually trying to enforce something like this, and the fact that isn't being talked about more means that this either isn't likely to get passed, or would have be almost entirely symbolic. Also, I can see a website very easily being hacked, exposing thousands or even millions of amateur "pornographers" info being leaked.

In the EU, there was a rather infamous bill passed a while ago that theoretically would have meant that all websites would be required to host special EU-regulated copyright filters that would automatically remove copyrighted content, including screenshots from movies for example, essentially making most "memes" illegal if they originate from a copyrighted source. In reality, nothing happened.

If, however, this really became a worst case scenario and Congress de facto outlawed 99.999% of online porn overnight, I'd guess Omo.org would probably be split into some sort of literotica-esque forum, paid for via adverts and banners, and some other non-USA hosted website that could manage the video aspect. After all, payment providers don't really care in most cases, unless they can get tied to child trafficking and sexual abuse, which was what the whole Pornhub fiasco was about.

 

EDIT: After reading the bill myself, it also contains some ridiculous statements that would make virtually every website criminally responsible, as "downloadable" porn videos e.g GIFs, WEBMs etc would be banned. This would kill off reddit, facebook, 4chan etc and is honestly laughable

Edited by Zuorsara (see edit history)
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5 hours ago, Zuorsara said:

A lot of the time with laws like this, either nothing happens afterwards or the law become so unenforcable that it gets repealed quickly. I can't imagine that any government would spend money actually trying to enforce something like this, and the fact that isn't being talked about more means that this either isn't likely to get passed, or would have be almost entirely symbolic

Yeah, if you can't imagine any government actually trying to enforce this or spending money on it, then you really aren't from the USA.  The same kind of thing was said about SESTA and FOSTA, anti sex trafficking legislation that made websites criminally liable if anyone used their platforms illegal sexual purposes.  For example, under these laws, if you arranged to pay another member of omorashi.org for sex, and came to this arrangement via the messaging system here, omorashi.org could be criminally liable that act of prostitution. 

These laws have had incredibly far reaching effects, and is why there is no longer a personals section on Craigslist.  It also resulted in the shutdown of Backpage.com and various dating apps.  Other dating sites had to quickly change to conform to these new laws.  Sites that helped models book gigs, like ModelMayhem, had to suddenly block any gigs that were in any way adult related and start banning long time members who had previously engaged in legal adult work.

5 hours ago, Zuorsara said:

Also, I can see a website very easily being hacked, exposing thousands or even millions of amateur "pornographers" info being leaked.

This is one of the many criticisms over this proposed law.  I think it will make things a lot more difficult for amateurs, as they are going to be at the mercy of the cyber-security of the various sites they work with. If this does become law, I suspect it will do a lot of harm to many amateur content producers who rely on third party sites for distribution.

6 hours ago, Zuorsara said:

In the EU, there was a rather infamous bill passed a while ago that theoretically would have meant that all websites would be required to host special EU-regulated copyright filters that would automatically remove copyrighted content, including screenshots from movies for example, essentially making most "memes" illegal if they originate from a copyrighted source. In reality, nothing happened.

The reason nothing happened is there was no reasonable way to enforce it.  Unless a site does some business inside the EU, with a hosting provider, or other service provider, or is operated by a citizen of the EU, the authorities would have no recourse against sites that simply ignored this.  Additionally, much of the content covered by this bill is protected under the "fair use" doctrine of copyright law.  So, the EU might have a law that specifically prohibits such content, but the US has a law that specifically protects such content.

With the EU passing this bill, and expecting sites will follow it, well, that is like China passing a law saying that you can't criticize its government online, then trying to enforce that in the EU.  It just isn't going to work.

It is much more concerning when the USA introduces such laws, as so much of the internet's infrastructure is under US jurisdiction.  Even if the hosting servers are located in another country, if the owner of the site is a US resident they still have to follow US law.  Other service providers also wouldn't be able to do business with a site that is openly operating outside of US law, so if the site does anything with a US based domain registrar, domain extensions that are under US control, DNS service providers, banks, credit card companies, software providers, cyber security companies, etc. then the US has the means to shut it down, or at the very least make it much harder for them to operate.

6 hours ago, Zuorsara said:

If, however, this really became a worst case scenario and Congress de facto outlawed 99.999% of online porn overnight, I'd guess Omo.org would probably be split into some sort of literotica-esque forum, paid for via adverts and banners, and some other non-USA hosted website that could manage the video aspect. After all, payment providers don't really care in most cases, unless they can get tied to child trafficking and sexual abuse, which was what the whole Pornhub fiasco was about.

Just moving the hosting of the video aspect outside of the US wouldn't save omorashi.org.  See above.  And the payment providers do care when it comes to US law, as all these major credit card companies are based in the US.

6 hours ago, Zuorsara said:

EDIT: After reading the bill myself, it also contains some ridiculous statements that would make virtually every website criminally responsible, as "downloadable" porn videos e.g GIFs, WEBMs etc would be banned. This would kill off reddit, facebook, 4chan etc and is honestly laughable

Yeah... I agree, but people said the same exact same thing about SESTA and FOSTA, yet here we are.  The sites those bills didn't kill off had to dramatically change to be in compliance, and I suspect it will be much the same here.  I think some sites are going to have to radically change the way they operate to stay in compliance, perhaps not hosting user submitted media at all, only allowing embeds and text.  When it comes to more mainstream sites, like Facebook, this law only targets sites that host adult content.  I suspect Facebook, like many sites, will simply make it clear that they do not allow adult content on their platforms and that will be their defence.

6 hours ago, Zuorsara said:

If, however, this really became a worst case scenario and Congress de facto outlawed 99.999% of online porn overnight

It wouldn't quite be overnight.  The way it typically works here, with federal law, is the act passes and it gets signed into law with a specific effective date.  Most frequently this is January 1st of the next year.  So if this act passes and gets signed into law in 2021, it wouldn't likely go into effect until 2022.  This would give websites some time to figure out how they want to handle this.

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Guest Soma-Matic

Well since the death of torrents and Indian pharma sites I've seen the coming of splitting the internet in two.... its likely Tor/Zeronet which will be spammed out hacked and like 4chan circa 2005 and that will comepete with CoportateNet By Facebook & Micrsoft Solutions in association with DARPA and Homeland security keeping you safe from yourself. I only like it if its independent and the girl enjoys herself so that takes 100% of corporate crap off the wall.... cause they're paid to smile we all know a paid smile vs a genuine one. #punkrock

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This law looks completely unenforceable with how broad it is, so I wouldn't worry too much personally.  I doubt anyone is going to come after you personally.  I understand the concern over this, but I don't realistically see this law ever getting passed.

The reason SESTA and FOSTA passed is because they were targeting prostitution and unfortunately many politicians in general have rather backwards views on the whole idea of prostitution in general(it's not just something those so-called family values types are against, plenty of left-leaning people are also against the idea) and won't even entertain the notion of legalizing it, so sites like Backpage were easy targets.

This law on the other hand is much more broad and easy to argue against and adult entertainment is something that has a lot more broad support then outright prostitution does, so I don't see this law passing the senate(most Republicans love porn too after all) like those other two did.  A lot of people didn't see the impact that those laws had, i'll freely admit i'd never even heard of Backpage until that law passed and I had no clue Craigslist even had a section for meeting up in real life.  But most everyone is going to see the impact this law will negatively have, so even on the off-chance it does pass, I don't see it surviving very long as I foresee a LOT of porn stars and companies filing lawsuits to challenge this law in court.  

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1 hour ago, LifeIsStrange said:

This law looks completely unenforceable with how broad it is, so I wouldn't worry too much personally.  I doubt anyone is going to come after you personally.  I understand the concern over this, but I don't realistically see this law ever getting passed.

The reason SESTA and FOSTA passed is because they were targeting prostitution and unfortunately many politicians in general have rather backwards views on the whole idea of prostitution in general(it's not just something those so-called family values types are against, plenty of left-leaning people are also against the idea) and won't even entertain the notion of legalizing it, so sites like Backpage were easy targets.

This law on the other hand is much more broad and easy to argue against and adult entertainment is something that has a lot more broad support then outright prostitution does, so I don't see this law passing the senate(most Republicans love porn too after all) like those other two did.  A lot of people didn't see the impact that those laws had, i'll freely admit i'd never even heard of Backpage until that law passed and I had no clue Craigslist even had a section for meeting up in real life.  But most everyone is going to see the impact this law will negatively have, so even on the off-chance it does pass, I don't see it surviving very long as I foresee a LOT of porn stars and companies filing lawsuits to challenge this law in court.  

I hope you are right and it doesn't pass.  But the very same things you said about it being too broad to be unenforceable were said about Title 18 S.2257, which imposed the record keeping requirement for adult content producers, and was said about SESTA and FOSTA.  Yet all these laws managed to pass, and here we are today dealing with the fallout of them.

I am not concerned with anyone coming after me personally, or anyone specifically going after omorashi.org.  But that doesn't need to happen.  All that needs to happen is for the payment providers to decide they want to stay on the right side of the law, and to stop providing their services to non-compliant websites.  The same for hosting companies.  This is the main way SESTA and FOSTA is enforced, not through agents going after sites, but other businesses unwilling to offer services or knowingly do business with a site that is afoul of US law.

This Stop Internet Sexual Exploitation act reportedly has broad support among republicans and democrats, and is supposedly being fast tracked for passage.  In regards to porn sites suing to put an end to it, that isn't that easy.  There are serious constitutional issues right now with USC 18.2257, but only parties with standing can actually challenge it.  To avoid having it challenge, the government has simply not really used it to go after anyone, and this means no one really has standing under the law to challenge it.  The same is true with SESTA and FOSTA... People follow the law because they don't want to take the risk, or their service providers they rely on don't give them a choice.  But, they can't actually challenge it until they get in trouble under it, because until that point they lack legal standing.  If that were not the case, there would be many lawsuits seeking to overturn 18.2257 as placing an unconstitutional requirement on constitutionally protected speech.

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5 minutes ago, TVGuy said:

I hope you are right and it doesn't pass.  But the very same things you said about it being too broad to be unenforceable were said about Title 18 S.2257, which imposed the record keeping requirement for adult content producers, and was said about SESTA and FOSTA.  Yet all these laws managed to pass, and here we are today dealing with the fallout of them.

I am not concerned with anyone coming after me personally, or anyone specifically going after omorashi.org.  But that doesn't need to happen.  All that needs to happen is for the payment providers to decide they want to stay on the right side of the law, and to stop providing their services to non-compliant websites.  The same for hosting companies.  This is the main way SESTA and FOSTA is enforced, not through agents going after sites, but other businesses unwilling to offer services or knowingly do business with a site that is afoul of US law.

This Stop Internet Sexual Exploitation act reportedly has broad support among republicans and democrats, and is supposedly being fast tracked for passage.  In regards to porn sites suing to put an end to it, that isn't that easy.  There are serious constitutional issues right now with USC 18.2257, but only parties with standing can actually challenge it.  To avoid having it challenge, the government has simply not really used it to go after anyone, and this means no one really has standing under the law to challenge it.  The same is true with SESTA and FOSTA... People follow the law because they don't want to take the risk, or their service providers they rely on don't give them a choice.  But, they can't actually challenge it until they get in trouble under it, because until that point they lack legal standing.  If that were not the case, there would be many lawsuits seeking to overturn 18.2257 as placing an unconstitutional requirement on constitutionally protected speech.

This reminds me more of Theresa May's infamous plan to ban certain sex acts in porn in the U.K., it was pretty universally unpopular and ultimately ended up falling apart after several high-profile protests.

The fact that Ben Sasse, one of the people that introduced the bill, was found to have a vendetta against Pornhub even before that infamous article about it's illegal content will make a lot of people suspicious about this bill.  At the very least I fully expect people like AOC to condemn it as they are smart enough to realize that bills like this won't help anyone.

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The irony is that many "verified" pornographic corporations are very exploitative in their own right. This isn't something that can be got right.

Maybe putting more effort into policing illicit porn instead of beating up homeless people, and having more networks for sexual abuse victims to report and be listened to will decrease immoral porn.

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On 1/1/2021 at 3:48 PM, Skirt Accident said:

Given sites like Pornhub are now effectively self-policing their content, will this take the wind out of the sails of this bill a bit? It seems less likely it will pass when private measures have already been taken by the biggest porn sites.

I think it will just depend on if it gets brought to the floor for a vote or not.  Clearly this proposed law was targeting PornHub and similar tube sites, and with PornHub and other sites now taking the drastic steps we have seen lately, the "need" of such a law seems somewhat dissipated now.  However, I can't really conceive of a situation where if this bill comes to the floor any congressional representative would vote against it.  Voting against a bill called "Stop Online Sexual Exploitation" could make it seem as if one was for only sexual exploitation, and no one is going to vote that way.

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"Any user who uploads adult material would have to provide proof of their true identity to that site.  Under this legislation, if you uploaded a video to omorashi.org, you would have submit a copy of your legal ID.  Omorashi.org would be required to keep a database of the true identity of the uploaders for all content. "

 

Well, thats ironic, when I ask for a verification method for this page, the admin answer there is no needed to "Ask for ID or "Driver's license"

 

Maybe they will know the gravity of the situation now...

No offense

Edited by faffef
Correction (see edit history)
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27 minutes ago, faffef said:

"Any user who uploads adult material would have to provide proof of their true identity to that site.  Under this legislation, if you uploaded a video to omorashi.org, you would have submit a copy of your legal ID.  Omorashi.org would be required to keep a database of the true identity of the uploaders for all content. "

 

Well, thats ironic, when I ask for a verification method for this page, the admin answer there is no needed to "Ask for ID or "Driver's license"

 

Maybe they will know the gravity of the situation now...

No offense

Well, this isn't a law yet.  It is only proposed legislation. 

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Guest Soma-Matic

Just admit it this is the corporate takeover of Porn just like they had Juul corporate takeover of vapes. Coprorate Marijuana, nothing home made nothing indie nothing real. 

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2 hours ago, Soma-Matic said:

Just admit it this is the corporate takeover of Porn just like they had Juul corporate takeover of vapes. Coprorate Marijuana, nothing home made nothing indie nothing real. 

I have to disagree with this assessment.  This bill specifically targets PornHub and similar sites, and would make it more difficult for them to operate.  More than half the content on PornHub was estimated to have been pirated, much of it from small indie producers.  PornHub was brining in over a half-billion dollars a year at its peak, much of it due to the content of the small time producers they were ripping off.  

I am not in favor of this proposed legislation.  I think it could have many unforeseen consequences that could be quite troubling.  But one positive that may come of it is that it could, once again, open the door for small independent content studios to produce unique content and make money doing it.

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Guest Soma-Matic
On 1/6/2021 at 12:42 AM, TVGuy said:

I have to disagree with this assessment.  This bill specifically targets PornHub and similar sites, and would make it more difficult for them to operate.  More than half the content on PornHub was estimated to have been pirated, much of it from small indie producers.  PornHub was brining in over a half-billion dollars a year at its peak, much of it due to the content of the small time producers they were ripping off.  

I am not in favor of this proposed legislation.  I think it could have many unforeseen consequences that could be quite troubling.  But one positive that may come of it is that it could, once again, open the door for small independent content studios to produce unique content and make money doing it.

I wish there was like a Facebook of porn, made by users not studios, you share I share type of idea like THISVID but with a social element. I know Eroprofile is kind of like that but lacks users. This site is great if you only have one like ya know. I feel like the only people who could keep these kind of records are big studios, just like the only people who could produce and test vapes to the level they wanted were big tobacco. The only people who could here in my state of Michigan make marijuana that was reagent tested were wealthy types. I just like a girl in an apartment soaking her coach lol. 

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1 hour ago, Soma-Matic said:

I wish there was like a Facebook of porn, made by users not studios, you share I share type of idea like THISVID but with a social element. I know Eroprofile is kind of like that but lacks users. This site is great if you only have one like ya know. I feel like the only people who could keep these kind of records are big studios, just like the only people who could produce and test vapes to the level they wanted were big tobacco. The only people who could here in my state of Michigan make marijuana that was reagent tested were wealthy types. I just like a girl in an apartment soaking her coach lol. 

I don't think there is necessarily a dividing line between studios and amateurs when it comes to porn.

You like a girl in her apartment soaking her couch.  That's great!  I'm sure there are girls out there who like to do that.  But, just because they enjoy that, what is there motivation to film themselves and go through the trouble of uploading that video and publishing it somewhere?

Maybe they simply enjoy sharing and being appreciated.  I'm sure there might be some who fall into that category.  But setting up a camera, making sure there is lighting, getting everything recording, then dealing with the video file and getting it uploaded, all of that stuff is kind of a chore.  And not many people are going to be motivated to do that just because they like being watched.

Now, if they have an opportunity to do that and earn a little bit of money too, well, then that can make the chore of going through the trouble to film it a bit more worthwhile.  You might also have girls who want to do this, but are going to want to be able to afford to replace their sofa at some point.  So they might want some kind of compensation.

The problem with setting up a site that tries to be something like Facebook for porn is that there is nothing preventing users from uploading pirated content.  PornHub tried to be a Youtube of porn, for user created content, but it just quickly became overrun with pirated stuff.  And because this helped PornHub grow and make money, they didn't do a whole lot to crack down on it.

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