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Fake accidents with a water pump and some electronics (or, the Rachel K empathy device)


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The problem

I'm something of a Daddy/DL and find the idea of seeing an attractive woman in diapers/nappies very appealing (though sadly something I've not (yet) encountered in real life) as well as wearing them myself from time to time, mainly to facilitate fantasies about the above.

A lot of these fantasies centre around accidents of one form or another. The problem is that it's impossible to create true accidents - simply "letting go" by choice at some moment misses the point - and not everyone is as unfortunate as @rachelkirwan (to pick a name at random) in having unexpected and sometimes untimely little bladder control failures.

So the question for the rest of us is what that must feel like - and is there any way we can recreate that sensation without, you know, hypnosis or extensive, irreversible surgery, which would probably come with some undesirable consequences?

Is there any way that we can let science take the place of magic in the classic ageplay story of a person being turned back into a child?

The solution

The other day I connected up a few fairly simple electronic components to control a 12V water pump sat in an insulated water container of hot/warm water. The water pump has a couple of metres of very flexible plastic tubing attached to it with the other end coming out in the user's underwear.

The motor is wired to a microcontroller which has a fairly simple program on it:

- We specify how often accidents should happen, on average. From that, the program calculates the probability of an accident per second. Once per five minutes, once per hour, whatever.
- Every second, the program randomly checks to see an accident has been triggered.
- If so, we generate a random duration between two values (say, 0.5 seconds and 4 seconds), add 2 seconds to this (which is roughly the amount of time it takes the water to reach the end of the tubing) and a random "strength" for the pump which can be run between 0% and 100%. Low strength means a weak trickle. High strength means the full power of the pump

There's also a small cooldown so you can't get one accident straight after another. And that's it.

The basic idea is that you turn the thing on, install the end of the tubing and then settle down to watch TV, read a book, play your computer game, write an essay, work on your novel - whatever it is that you want to do that doesn't take you more than a metre from the pump or dislodge the tubing.

The tube is surprisingly forgettable until some moment that could be after five minutes or could be after two hours, when you least expect it and your mind is elsewhere, suddenly there's warmth and wetness where there was dryness and before and you find yourself thinking, "Ah, does that show? Did the protection leak? Do I need to go get changed?".

It's not the real thing, of course, but it perhaps gives the rest of us a hint of what it must be like for the accident-prone among us.

I thought I'd post this in case it inspires someone else to do something similar.

Next steps

It might be fun if this had the option of being tied to something happening on a computer; a game in which a virtual bladder filled according to some game rules, but with real world consequences for in-game decisions for holding on too long in-game. That shouldn't be too hard to do!

Making something like this portable could be interesting too...!

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On 9/22/2019 at 1:54 PM, swordfish said:

The problem

I'm something of a Daddy/DL and find the idea of seeing an attractive woman in diapers/nappies very appealing (though sadly something I've not (yet) encountered in real life) as well as wearing them myself from time to time, mainly to facilitate fantasies about the above.

A lot of these fantasies centre around accidents of one form or another. The problem is that it's impossible to create true accidents - simply "letting go" by choice at some moment misses the point - and not everyone is as unfortunate as @rachelkirwan (to pick a name at random) in having unexpected and sometimes untimely little bladder control failures.

So the question for the rest of us is what that must feel like - and is there any way we can recreate that sensation without, you know, hypnosis or extensive, irreversible surgery, which would probably come with some undesirable consequences?

Is there any way that we can let science take the place of magic in the classic ageplay story of a person being turned back into a child?

The solution

The other day I connected up a few fairly simple electronic components to control a 12V water pump sat in an insulated water container of hot/warm water. The water pump has a couple of metres of very flexible plastic tubing attached to it with the other end coming out in the user's underwear.

The motor is wired to a microcontroller which has a fairly simple program on it:

- We specify how often accidents should happen, on average. From that, the program calculates the probability of an accident per second. Once per five minutes, once per hour, whatever.
- Every second, the program randomly checks to see an accident has been triggered.
- If so, we generate a random duration between two values (say, 0.5 seconds and 4 seconds), add 2 seconds to this (which is roughly the amount of time it takes the water to reach the end of the tubing) and a random "strength" for the pump which can be run between 0% and 100%. Low strength means a weak trickle. High strength means the full power of the pump

There's also a small cooldown so you can't get one accident straight after another. And that's it.

The basic idea is that you turn the thing on, install the end of the tubing and then settle down to watch TV, read a book, play your computer game, write an essay, work on your novel - whatever it is that you want to do that doesn't take you more than a metre from the pump or dislodge the tubing.

The tube is surprisingly forgettable until some moment that could be after five minutes or could be after two hours, when you least expect it and your mind is elsewhere, suddenly there's warmth and wetness where there was dryness and before and you find yourself thinking, "Ah, does that show? Did the protection leak? Do I need to go get changed?".

It's not the real thing, of course, but it perhaps gives the rest of us a hint of what it must be like for the accident-prone among us.

I thought I'd post this in case it inspires someone else to do something similar.

Next steps

It might be fun if this had the option of being tied to something happening on a computer; a game in which a virtual bladder filled according to some game rules, but with real world consequences for in-game decisions for holding on too long in-game. That shouldn't be too hard to do!

Making something like this portable could be interesting too...!

Oh I'm so glad someone is experimenting with this. Now I know that movies where someone needs to wet themselves use a remote controlled fake bladder, so perhaps the program could be connected to that? I also like the idea of Daddy having a phone app kind of like on the SIMS where he can see how full your bladder is and then just randomly make it void. So much sexy potential.

 

Also, pics!

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Can this device be made portable and small enough to carry about with you discreetly? Will it all fit in your trouser pocket for example? I’d think the water container could be as small as 100 ml and still give realistic pee mishaps, and if it were in your pocket it would stay warm through body heat  

As the owner of a small electronics company I have thought about making something like this for my own use but never quite got around to it.

Does it have a user interface for programming the frequency and size of leaks? Or do you programme it via the computer? What microcontroller did you use?

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14 hours ago, rachelkirwan said:

a phone app kind of like on the SIMS where he can see how full your bladder is and then just randomly make it void

Fun data security implications there :) "Hackers made me wet my pants". 

It wouldn't be that hard to do, really, I think. :) I'll have to carry on experimenting. 

7 hours ago, WetDave said:

Will it all fit in your trouser pocket for example

At the moment I use a one litre container. That'd be a rucksack size thing if it was packaged up. No reason it couldn't be smaller though. Two things though:

* If the water container is higher than the pump, siphoning is a problem!

* Because it takes a while for the water to make it down the tube, it's not ideal for millilitre level control you'd need for 100ml in total. Unless you just wanted to let it all out in one go.

I've got some ideas for what to do about both those problems though!

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My last comment hasn't been approved yet, but just to say a bit more:

Quote

Does it have a user interface for programming the frequency and size of leaks? Or do you programme it via the computer? What microcontroller did you use?

At the moment, it doesn't really have a user interface as such. I just tweak the program and rewrite it to the microcontroller itself - this one at the moment is only an old, cheap fake-Arduino that I had lying around, by the way, though I'm not sure I'll stick with that.

Like I said to Rachel above though, it should be pretty easy to make an interface. An app might be tricky... but tying it to a computer or a phone on the same wifi network should be fairly straightforward.

Quote

Also, pics!

You'll have to let me tidy it up a bit first. It's just a bunch of wires for now 🙂

-    -    -

One thing I didn't mention in the original post is that it actually works quite well at simulating bedwetting - at least, assuming you don't move around _too_ much at night (though a couple of metres of tubing is quite a lot of flexibility), and you play with the settings so that you get larger wettings more rarely. Not ideal for everyone, but it's about the closest I can imagine a non-bedwetter can come to actually experiencing the "real thing".

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On 9/24/2019 at 11:10 AM, swordfish said:

My last comment hasn't been approved yet, but just to say a bit more:

At the moment, it doesn't really have a user interface as such. I just tweak the program and rewrite it to the microcontroller itself - this one at the moment is only an old, cheap fake-Arduino that I had lying around, by the way, though I'm not sure I'll stick with that.

Like I said to Rachel above though, it should be pretty easy to make an interface. An app might be tricky... but tying it to a computer or a phone on the same wifi network should be fairly straightforward.

You'll have to let me tidy it up a bit first. It's just a bunch of wires for now 🙂

-    -    -

One thing I didn't mention in the original post is that it actually works quite well at simulating bedwetting - at least, assuming you don't move around _too_ much at night (though a couple of metres of tubing is quite a lot of flexibility), and you play with the settings so that you get larger wettings more rarely. Not ideal for everyone, but it's about the closest I can imagine a non-bedwetter can come to actually experiencing the "real thing".

Hehehe perfectionist engineers! Can't wait, and yeah, to keep the size down, rigging it to like a catheter bag or like camelback would cover the water. And if the goal were to just cause and accident and not like a huge spectacular one, it would require less water, which would mean easier and smaller...

Y'all are rocking Arduino and not Raspberry Pee?

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Quote

Hehehe perfectionist engineers!

Yep 🙂

Quote

rigging it to like a catheter bag or like camelback would cover the water. And if the goal were to just cause and accident and not like a huge spectacular one, it would require less water, which would mean easier and smaller...

Hmm. That's an interesting idea. I hadn't thought of a camelback.

I had an old hiking camelback lying around around so I butchered the tubing a little bit and I can confirm it works quite well. There's a bit of a question of layout though. At the moment, you need the pump to be below the bag, so it gets a steady supply of water, but the bag can't be above the (ahem) outlet, else the water will just siphon straight through the pump and it'll empty immediately.

So not quite portable yet, but I'll keep playing with it 🙂

Quote

Y'all are rocking Arduino and not Raspberry Pee?

Love it 🙂 Yeah, it'd totally work with a Raspberry Pee which might be worth it just for the name!

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6 hours ago, swordfish said:

Yep 🙂

Hmm. That's an interesting idea. I hadn't thought of a camelback.

I had an old hiking camelback lying around around so I butchered the tubing a little bit and I can confirm it works quite well. There's a bit of a question of layout though. At the moment, you need the pump to be below the bag, so it gets a steady supply of water, but the bag can't be above the (ahem) outlet, else the water will just siphon straight through the pump and it'll empty immediately.

So not quite portable yet, but I'll keep playing with it 🙂

Love it 🙂 Yeah, it'd totally work with a Raspberry Pee which might be worth it just for the name!

I’ve little experience with raspberry “pee”. However we do make a product with a PIC microcontroller in a handy little hand-held case with a couple of pushbuttons and a small 2-line LCD screen which with a little work i think could be redesigned into a little pump controller which would easily fit in your pocket. I reckon I could do a one-off prototype-standard hardware fairly quickly and a new firmware load could be done in a weekend.

With a slightly larger case I might be able to get a small pump and maybe a 100 ml fluid reservoir in it, and still just about pocket-sized. It’d be maybe 6 x 4 x 1.5 inches. 100ml wouldn’t be enough to simulate a full wetting accident but it’s ample for simulating even quite big leaks - if you doubt me measure out 100 ml water and dump it down the inside of your pants and see how wet they get.

i think we could have a Little competition to see who can make the best device!

And to address the syphoning comment I think I’ve got some small valves from my aquarium hoses that would do the job. 

Edited by WetDave (see edit history)
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Quote

i think we could have a Little competition to see who can make the best device! 

Definitely! That's the sort of competition everyone wins. 🙂 What sort of PIC controller is it, by the way? I've not worked with them in a while, but a prepacked case with buttons, screen and microcontroller definitely gives you a good place to start.

Is there any scope for external connectivity on your PIC? Or is that a bit trickier?

Quote

I’ve got some small valves from my aquarium hoses that would do the job.

I've been thinking along the same lines, of course, and I have a few different valves on order but it's not something I know much about (having an aquarium sounds quite useful in that respect!).

Quote

Suitable pump found - tiny and can run from 5V microcontroller power  RS components stock number 7026898. 

That's quite a cute little pump. Not cheap, though!

I'm excited to see what you come up with - and inspiring this sort of thing is exactly why I posted. Good luck!

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We’ve used the same PIC on all our products for convenience because they’re very low volume so it’s just not worth the hassle of choosing different ones to save a few pennies on the unit price. It’s a mid-range - PIC16F1713.

We are developing a product with USB connectivity using a different microcontroller but I don’t think that’s necessary for a simple peeing device, since it would be easy enough to operate as a standalone device with its simple user interface. All one needs, I think, is a means to set the frequency and size of the leaks which can easily be done through the units own controls with the small LCD display showing the user settings. 

2xAA battery power supply. 

Might look around for a cheaper pump, that was just the first one I found. It’s nice because it could fit in the case with the Electronics along with a small water vessel. 

Obviously this project will have to be done in the background, in spare time, second priority to the actual money-making projects!

12 hours ago, swordfish said:

Definitely! That's the sort of competition everyone wins. 🙂 What sort of PIC controller is it, by the way? I've not worked with them in a while, but a prepacked case with buttons, screen and microcontroller definitely gives you a good place to start.

Is there any scope for external connectivity on your PIC? Or is that a bit trickier?

I've been thinking along the same lines, of course, and I have a few different valves on order but it's not something I know much about (having an aquarium sounds quite useful in that respect!).

That's quite a cute little pump. Not cheap, though!

I'm excited to see what you come up with - and inspiring this sort of thing is exactly why I posted. Good luck!

 

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  • 1 month later...
Guest Closed_Account

@swordfish @rachelkirwan

Speaking of hooking this up to a phone, I seem to remember this from a while back:

https://www.dfrobot.com/product-1259.html

Should be easy enough, I'm sure they have plenty of libraries for interfacing with an android app, then accept commands via SMS.

There was also a cool iOS project called the light blue bean but it seems to be dead now.

What kind of pump are you using? Peristalsis?

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4 hours ago, Redd said:

All of this is very exciting.  Please keep working on this idea as there is definitely a place for this type of thing.  

We will continue! We have another product in development, which will form the basis for this pee simulator design, so I will start on the pee simulator product after that. It’ll be mid 2020 when it’s done.

When I’ve got a working prototype I’ll take some photos and make a short demo video then if anyone wants one I’ll make a few and sell at cost price. 

I’ll have some 3D computer models soon to show the general idea, and maybe a non-functional hardware mock up. I’ll create a new topic on here for it when I have something to show. 

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7 minutes ago, WetDave said:

We will continue! We have another product in development, which will form the basis for this pee simulator design, so I will start on the pee simulator product after that. It’ll be mid 2020 when it’s done.

When I’ve got a working prototype I’ll take some photos and make a short demo video then if anyone wants one I’ll make a few and sell at cost price. 

I’ll have some 3D computer models soon to show the general idea, and maybe a non-functional hardware mock up. I’ll create a new topic on here for it when I have something to show. 

Excellent, thank you.

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Some first thoughts on what the requirements on this device should be. I’ve given a “target” representing what we would ideally like to achieve and a “minimum” representing the worst acceptable level of performance. 

It is unlikely that all of the targets can be met and some may have to be traded off against others. For example, making the unit as small as possible isn’t consistent with achieving the maximum water capacity. 

Any comments would be appreciated. 

 

 

Target

Minimum

Dimensions

Trouser/jeans pocket size - max 150x80x25mm

Jacket pocket - max size 180x90x35mm

Water volume

100ml

50ml

Flow rate

2000ml/min

500ml/min

Controls

Selector Switch for on/off and mode selection. 

On/off only

Modes

Off, random leaks of 5-20 ml over one hour, full pee at a random time during the next hour, full immediate pee. 

Off, and random leAks only

Refill

Auto (pumps water back in to refill itself when selected)

Manual refill through filler cap

Power

2xAA battery

 

Operating orientation

Any

Upright only

Price

£50.00

£100.00

 

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Guest Closed_Account

You could always separate the control unit and the resevoir, and make the resevoir look like something unrelated, like a glasses case or something else that might normally belong in a pocket. That'd make it a bit easier to keep it small. Also you could have different sized resevoirs for different occasions.

Another idea might be to build the resevoir into a butt plug. That'd certainly save on pocket space.

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what do you think about this ? 
https://www.amazon.co.uk/MIUMIU-Diaphragm-Pressure-Agricultural-Electric/dp/B07T9DR83R/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=Electric+Diaphragm+Pump+Self+Priming&qid=1574744640&sr=8-3

You could start with a modded soda can of 200 ml to start add in/outtake and putty the hole.
Not sure where you can get plastic tubing in the UK (like a home depot).

For the electronic trigger that we can figure out later.

Diaphragm High Pressure Self Priming water pump
keyword: rc, water cooling, water pump


Edit:
This is a bad Idea the pump is too big 12 cm on the long side.

Edited by inconnue (see edit history)
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21 hours ago, rachelkirwan said:

I love reading y'all geeking out here 🙂

Ha! You won’t love it so much when we start carrying out a sequence of cruel and invasive experiments on you to determine your bladder capacity, leakage frequency, leakage volume, flow rate and so on!

After all, we do want to accurately recreate the real Dr. Kirwan experience. 

I’d even like to name the machine “The Dr. K”

On 11/26/2019 at 5:09 AM, inconnue said:

what do you think about this ? 
https://www.amazon.co.uk/MIUMIU-Diaphragm-Pressure-Agricultural-Electric/dp/B07T9DR83R/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=Electric+Diaphragm+Pump+Self+Priming&qid=1574744640&sr=8-3

You could start with a modded soda can of 200 ml to start add in/outtake and putty the hole.
Not sure where you can get plastic tubing in the UK (like a home depot).

For the electronic trigger that we can figure out later.

Diaphragm High Pressure Self Priming water pump
keyword: rc, water cooling, water pump


Edit:
This is a bad Idea the pump is too big 12 cm on the long side.

There seem to be plenty of miniature water pumps available on the Internet including some USB powered (and therefore presumably 5V). 

Tubing is available in the UK from B&Q, Homebase and also aquarium suppliers.

On 11/19/2019 at 10:24 PM, Coinín Beag said:

Another idea might be to build the resevoir into a butt plug. That'd certainly save on pocket space.

I ain’t shoving a water tank up my arse - not even for this exciting project!

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The KISS principle is best (keep it simple and stupid). A simple processor board, about thumbnail size such as a ATTiny will run off a single lithium cell. A balloon, in your pocket, and some silicone tubing such as model aircraft fuel tubing delivers the goods. At the start of the tubing, at the balloon, a small diameter short length of stiff acrylic tube packed with bees or candle wax is fitted. Inside the tube, buried in the wax, a low value resistor connected to the micro. Use a small 125mW leaded resistor or better a 0603 SMT resistor with wires soldered on to it. The power delivered is the square of the voltage divided by the resistance. With a 3V Lithium battery the voltage is close to 3V. you need about 1W to melt the wax, so a resistance of around 10 ohms. That will give you about 300mA of current which is too much for the micro so a single transistor needs to be added such as a BC337. A simple circuit and no circuit board needed - just wire it up the old fashioned way and put it in some heatshrink tubing.. 

When the micro energizes the resistor it melts the wax and the balloon does it job. You can choose a full accident or a slow leak by the size of the short tube, but you cannot stop the flow.

The micro firmware is simple and any protocol you want to suit you preferred level of drama. After connecting the battery it will count to some really big number then turn on the resistor for 10 seconds or so. How big a number will determine your time, or you can generate a random time for some added excitement.

Start it, go to the mall, and see if you can get home in time. Alternatively go with the slow leak and some minor protection and go further afield.

This works. Done it.

 

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5 hours ago, peejf said:

Too big and TOO expensive. An eleastic bladder is better, ie. a balloon, say in your pocket. Only a solenoid valve is needed.

 

Good idea and an elastic bladder would make more efficient use of the space. 

5 hours ago, peejf said:

The KISS principle is best (keep it simple and stupid). A simple processor board, about thumbnail size such as a ATTiny will run off a single lithium cell. A balloon, in your pocket, and some silicone tubing such as model aircraft fuel tubing delivers the goods. At the start of the tubing, at the balloon, a small diameter short length of stiff acrylic tube packed with bees or candle wax is fitted. Inside the tube, buried in the wax, a low value resistor connected to the micro. Use a small 125mW leaded resistor or better a 0603 SMT resistor with wires soldered on to it. The power delivered is the square of the voltage divided by the resistance. With a 3V Lithium battery the voltage is close to 3V. you need about 1W to melt the wax, so a resistance of around 10 ohms. That will give you about 300mA of current which is too much for the micro so a single transistor needs to be added such as a BC337. A simple circuit and no circuit board needed - just wire it up the old fashioned way and put it in some heatshrink tubing.. 

When the micro energizes the resistor it melts the wax and the balloon does it job. You can choose a full accident or a slow leak by the size of the short tube, but you cannot stop the flow.

The micro firmware is simple and any protocol you want to suit you preferred level of drama. After connecting the battery it will count to some really big number then turn on the resistor for 10 seconds or so. How big a number will determine your time, or you can generate a random time for some added excitement.

Start it, go to the mall, and see if you can get home in time. Alternatively go with the slow leak and some minor protection and go further afield.

This works. Done it.

 

Yep. Depending on the controller you could omit the transistor by paralleling several IO ports. 

It’s not quite as user friendly with the wax method in that some fiddling about with wax pellets would be needed to reset and reuse the device. But very simple way to create a wetting device. 

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6 hours ago, WetDave said:

Good idea and an elastic bladder would make more efficient use of the space. 

Yep. Depending on the controller you could omit the transistor by paralleling several IO ports. 

It’s not quite as user friendly with the wax method in that some fiddling about with wax pellets would be needed to reset and reuse the device. But very simple way to create a wetting device. 

Most little micros are limited to around 25mA per port pin so paralleling may not work, but what you could do is to put a vibrator motor on one of the port pins. These little motors have an eccentric weight on them and are used in mobile phones as ring indicators. They are dirt cheap on ebay. Set the firmware to give you a warning using the vibrator, say 2 minutes, to add some excitement to the performance.

I have made the wax thingies and they are really quite easy. Put in the resistor with both wires out one end. Push the other end of the tube into the wax to fill it then gently heat it with a flame to melt the wax. The blank end goes into the balloon with a clamp (very tiny 1.5mm cable tie) and the other end into the silicone tubing. Make a pin prick in the tubing for the wires to come out - it won't leak if the tubing is silicone.

The actual construction of the circuit is a 5 minute job. There is no circuit board and no components. The micro's internal oscillator is used and reset is hard wired. Use a DIL chip and just bend its legs over and solder wires to it. Put the whole lot into a short length of heatshrink tubing. If you use a small connector to the wax/resistor then you can re-use the controller as often as you want.

Firmware is simple but if anyone wants suitable firmware I can provide it. You will need a programmer for the chip but these are just a few dollars on ebay and once you have one you can modify the firmware or timings to your heart's content. If you use an ATTiny then the Arduino IDE will be fine, and free.

 

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Nice approach peejf! Also liked the idea of a solenoid valve, because it could make the device even easier to reload.

One way to make it more realistic would be to somehow detect when the pelvic floor muscles are been contracted and inhibit the leak (for a moment anyways) - that could make it very difficult for brains to distinguish where the leak is actually coming from and elevate the feeling of panic. However, I haven't got any ideas yet how the muscle contraction could be conveniently detected.

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