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Long time ago, I started a thread named Are Genders Really Equal? in which I tried to discuss about the boiling issues of gender discrimination our society is facing and how we are tackling it. Unfortunately, I had to close the thread due to some issues. But I realized that barely closing a thread on a forum does not end the topic or the debate and I also realized that there was so much that I got to learn from discussion on that thread. So keeping in light with the current wave of women empowerment, feminism, changing gender roles and the discrimination both genders are facing, I decided to start a new thread, where I'd like to discuss about the same. 

Starting off with a Facebook post that I'd like to share- 

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This woman's Facebook post really got me thinking and I realized that to a very large extent, it is true. Women are told they can achieve whatever they want, no one tells boys otherwise, but both boys and girls are brought up differently now. In India, most of the boys don't even know how to cook and they are unwilling to lend a hand with the household chores and on the other hand, girls handle the household chores really well and are now performing well in every area that was once thought to be a male dominated sector. 

Academically too, boys are now lagging far behind girls which means a huge gender gap in future. While I see one gender progressing at a very fast pace, I see another one struggling to understand its role in the current society. And to be honest, it really disturbs me. Your thoughts?

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Posted (edited)
Found an interesting video on Facebook, thought of sharing it here. I agree with what she is saying on some points, would be interested to know what others think.

 

Edited by Pain

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if you're intrested in feminism and gender gap these days try to find the film called the red pill

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I believe this is a multi-faceted situation with a few possible complications thus far.

  1. Some places will refuse to treat men and women equally (favouring either side), while others are fairly equal.
  2. There are people who want equality, but I have noticed other crazy internet people now trying to create a sort of vengeance for historical wrongs.
  3. I keep hearing about the average pay for men and the average pay for women, but I don't know which specific jobs placements have actual pay gaps.

I hasten to note that I struggle to understand when and where this sort of 'patriarchy' happens not because I don;t want to understand, but because in the limited work environments I was in (a call centre treating everybody like dirt, a Baptist church reception that accepted all, and a museum which never saw controversial situations), I never actually saw such issues in action.

Again, I love equality and wish to create a meritocracy of robotic efficiency, but these sorts of debates are very hypothetical because I haven't witnessed women being put down for their gender* outside of the internet** except in fictional movies and television.

 

*There were individual rivalries, political/religious differences, etcetera but clearly instances where no favour for or against the gender itself was displayed.
**But assholes and bullies will take any factor and hate you for it, like my Autism.

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Whoever started that Facebook post didn't understand that it's not a point about mothers hating their sons. It's just the difference in culture but being modernized it seems to look and appear this way. For the ancient society to function efficiently, the differences between men and women had to be utilized in such a way that men went out into the world and took part in most of the risks of hard labor, negotiating, and war fighting while women took care of the home front. Girls were quite literally prepared to do this; young men were married and even betrothed in their young teens. Men were almost never without their women if they could help it. But even then, I seriously doubt it's as bad as is made in the post; that's logically impossible.

Of course, in the modern age that has been mostly remedied with the accessibility of time-saving technology and information for education, which is still being introduced to India. That's probably a greater part of the misunderstanding discrepancies.

 

Now, this day and age, it seems as if everyone is out looking for discrimination issues and wanting to hinge their world problems by seeking out injustices that are usually imagined. Certain groups feel like they can only thrive in an environment where the world is totally against them, and safe spaces need to be made and their rights need to be raised. People are being taught that you can think with your heart using your emotions and rage-reacting to things rather than thinking rationally with your mind and using logic. 

 

However, it can and does happen. That said, the Target store I used to work for suffered heavily from bias in favor of females. Once we had a new HR lady and a new store manger (who had, quite literally, no previous work experience in her life except 1 year as a co-manager. She came out of high school, to college, and started trying to manage an entire store having never worked a cash register or any form of grunt work), it was obvious they were feminist. Female coworkers committing the exact same offenses were treated better than men of a minor similar issue. Even if nothing wrong was being done, any time things were not up to standards, male managers and supervisors were routinely chewed out and reprimanded, even humiliated. A guy with over 7 years experience and success in the store as a supervisor was denied a manager's position. Instead, a gal who was 3-months new that nobody liked was given the position. Eventually, men in leadership positions started to quit or gave up on moving up and went to other stores.

I actually had a case of sexual harassment in which I was trying to help out a girl work on her isle; I cleaned up her trash and helped stock one of the last isles. But she was disgusted and moved away and later told me to stay away. I asked why, so she screamed at the top of her lungs to be heard halfway across the store, "Because I can hear you masturbating in the bathroom!" That is impossible to verify, nor was it true. I immediately talked to the closest supervisor about it and did everything correctly by the store policy, and according to the same store policy, what she did was a fire-able offense. 

Several months later after that calmed down finally and people started treating me somewhat more normally, I was called in to the office and accused of looking at pornography in the break room, which was also not true and unverifiable. I had no idea what they were talking about, and I went home and looked at my laptop and browsed the full history none of which was deleted. I offered to bring it in to work as evidence. The HR manager held up her hand, "No, we do not want, nor will we look at evidence." I was put on probation and threatened with losing my job. I found out later that I wasn't the only guy running into these similar problems, which had never existed prior to our new store manager and HR manager. Instead of sitting around and pouting and raising my fist at possible injustice, I worked harder, I worked nicer, and I did everything in my power to help pull that store through hard times above my pay grade and beyond my requirements.

So it became clear that despite those efforts, and despite us having other team members taking advantage of the system and refusing to meet anything other than minimum requirements, I was routinely rooted out, written up for imaginary offenses, and any problem happening around me, I was the first go-to person as potential blame. But we had our hands tied behind our backs because Target and society in general assume that sexism is only a thing from men against women, and that the inverse does not apply.

 

True gender equality means not making a deal of gender issues or differences, and just allowing those who succeed to succeed, and those who fail to fail. If a majority of men fail, or a majority of women fail, and the policy is the same standard, investigate it, but don't make things harder or easier for the other to try "leveling the playing field".

Edited by Slater

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Ok, wow, there is so much here.  FIRST:  I believe that gender equality has or should have more to do with respect then with roles.  We should have the same amount of respect for the roles that females seem to more commonly and are better suited  for as we do the roles that only males seem to fill.  If the respect was there across the board, a lot of these issues would not be present.  The way society has gone about addressing this issue is definitely cause for concern.  It can't be exactly the same in every aspect because man and women are not exactly the same.  Both sexes can do things the other cannot.  It is human nature to want to be superior and irreplaceable.  Men often want to make like their role is somehow more valuable than the female's role.  This isn't exactly true, but men are stronger physically and often times can endure more, but women can endure more emotionally at times.  There are things both sexes excel at and we should recognize and appreciate that instead of trying to justify why both sexes are capable of every role, because they aren't. 

Second:  I have spent many years in an Indian household.........trust me, it is not the male you need to worry about.  Not that you are wrong about men not being able to do certain basic domestic things, that is true.  But that is only because they are expected to live at home until marriage.  The worse part of this is this........the wife is EXPECTED to do all those things.  Cook, clean, laundry, pack bags, make bed.......all that.  It isn't so unfair, then men are expected to make the money and pay for EVERYTHING.  They are expected to know how to or who to call for everything.  They take the trash out, mow the grass, anything that would traditionally seem like a male thing.....yeah, its fair, its just not the same.  The tragedy in the culture though is this, men are raised to be leaders, they are taught they are better then females and more capable.  Women are taught, and at a very early age, that they mean nothing other than to grow up and marry.  They are raised to attract the highest dowry possible.  Even an older sister will take a back seat in leadership to a younger brother.  The eldest brother (son) will become the family patriarch and will be respected almost blindly.  I do not feel as sorry for the male who doesn't know how to cook as I do the female the feels worthless and to succumb to everything any man tells her.

Now admittedly, this is a more traditional Indian belief and not necessarily symbolic of India today which has become quite Westernized over the past decade specifically.  However, there are plenty of households still today, that do actually believe and practice these values.  I have personal experience.

 

I have never been employed at a job where a male made more money for the same position as a female.  I'd like to think those days are gone but I can only speak of my experience in life and I don't see it nor have I heard of such.  I think there are probably situations where that could be true based on potential but it would be situations that aren't common.  IE:  a female NFL  player probably wouldn't be paid as much as a male for the same position, but in all likely hood (not necessarily 100% fullproof) the male will be able to sustain that type of work longer.  But like I said, it should be more about respect.  A man will never give carry and give birth to a child.  That is something that as a male, I can never imagine the toll, the pain, the joy or the connection that occurs in that process.  And no, that is not the only thing women should be respected for or are good at.  It is certainly a good starting ground.  Let's just be real, like the girl in the video, the world needs men to be men, we also need women to be women.  We don't need men to be women or women to be men, and I am not talking about gender reassignment, I mean in pushing everyone to some sort of common ground.  It isn't necessary and is in fact detrimental to society.  Both roles are needed and they certainly aren't the same, so let's not pretend like we can all do both, because we can't. 

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