Is Gender A Spectrum?

Recommended Posts

S333-2    42
6 hours ago, EMT said:

That's called a genetic malfunction.

Not necesary genetic, but yea... 

 

Tho my question rather was about, how u would choose only 2Genders "based by whats in ur pants", since these malfuctions can change the whole...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again, I'd like to point out that intersex exists as a catch-all for anatomical abnormalities related to genitalia, and that such is rare enough that most people go their entire lives without knowingly meeting an intersex individual. I've also read that individuals with XO, XXX, or XXY chromosomal abnormalities sometimes go most, if not all, of their lives without knowing their condition because of having mild symptoms.

 

Though given the earlier comments about Downs and inheriting conditions, I find myself wondering: For conditions caused by chromosomal abnormalities(Downs is caused by having three copies of chromosome 21) that don't lead to sterility, are individuals with these conditions any more likely than the general population to produce gametes with the wrong number of chromosomes?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
S333-2    42
36 minutes ago, Jeffery Mewtamer said:

Though given the earlier comments about Downs and inheriting conditions, I find myself wondering: For conditions caused by chromosomal abnormalities(Downs is caused by having three copies of chromosome 21) that don't lead to sterility, are individuals with these conditions any more likely than the general population to produce gametes with the wrong number of chromosomes?

Depends alot on the abnormality id guess.

IIRC from med school.. Downs gets passed onto child. BUT a little less than "normal" because downs-baby´s are less likely to even get "finished". It depends on alot of things tho

(afaik tri21 leads to ~2 (not calcing in new random mutations) possible combinations from parent -> 1x 21 or 2x21 (+1x21 from other parent)-> ~50/50% , but since 2x21 is less likely to even live on till birth it lowers down to about 30-40% (of childs that get tri21).
Id guess even if both parents are with tri21 they could have a "normal" baby still. (1x21+1x21  ,1x21+2x21,   2x21+1x21 and 2x21+2x21 (no idea if 4x21 is even able to live))

It probably also slightly depends if the father or the mother have downs, since mothers eggs are more likely to mutate again or something.. over 90% first mutations come from (esp. old) mothers iirc. 

Since there is also different kinds of tri21 it gets even harder to say .. (e.g. mosaic where only some parts of the body have tri21 .. if sperm/eggs arent affected it shouldnt get passed on, except just have it mutate again (at ~ normal rate).
Also theres forms where the 3rd 21 is translocated onto another chromosome which makes it even more complicated id guess. 

I think there also been some study´s how some kind/race/ethnie of people have higher chance to get childs with tri21, because some "dna checks" are broken - when the "dna check" is broken for (both) the parent, causing higher chance for their child to get tri21, then the kid with tri21 will have higher chance aswell, but a "normal" kid would have higher chance to get a kid with tri21 aswell... So its not only because of the tri21 in this case. (but rather because there already is a higher mutation rate in those kind of people anyways - something similar for some sorts of breastcancer iirc, the cancer itself doesnt really get passed on, but some "control" stuff is broken)

Its hard to talk about something like this without being to good at english, i hope its understandable (+not wrong, been some years).



 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

as someone who is troubled by this stuff myself

 

Yeahhh this is a hard thing to actually get any form of mind around, it depends on how you see it i guess?

 

there are, 2 genders imo, male and female, but those 2 are like the main ends of a wide spectrum

note: gender is what you actually feel as in your head, don't go apache helicopter or cat because that's something entirely different, feeling as if you should've been a cat has nothing to do with gender at all because cats are also male/female(just an example lol, i've seen that sorta thing, not that i blame them, to each their own)

 

So basically, it's what one person feels themselfes as, i for one, am born in a male body, but everything in my mind is going waaaay against that, if that makes any sense? from pure interests to the way i "naturally" behave to whatnot is everything but male, that combined with the "cliché" thing of like oh no i never liked my dick i want that operation, well it's sortof always been there, just not clear? like i always wanted to change but never went further in it because i just didn't think of it much(till therapy and research happened ofc)

 

BUT enough of that, in my eyes there are 2 genders, note this is mental, so if you feel male your gender is male, if you feel female your gender is female, it has nothing to do with actual sex, it's what your body says biologicaly, with alot of actual changing and whatnot(hormones, and operations) it'll be like what 75%? but you'll still be the biological sex of your birth, you will have just changed it enough to be more like the other sex i presume, but stuff like the actual bone structure and stuff will stay the same ofc, can't change that lol, i mean outside of facial operations

 

tl;dr

2 genders, totally nothing to do with actual sex, it's mental and a wide af spectrum beteen male/female, no apache helicopter or whatever

 

If anyone has more questions feel free to pm me or something lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, ~Miyuki~ said:

 

tl;dr

2 genders, totally nothing to do with actual sex, it's mental and a wide af spectrum beteen male/female, no apache helicopter or whatever

 

Although I think here are more then two named genders, I pretty much ageee with you... gender is a spectrum, sex is not gender, be whatever you feel. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While everyone has the right to identify as whatever they want, my view on it is that you're either a male or a female.

That's not to say that if you're born as a male, that you aren't a female, and vice versa. Someone who is born one gender can have the brain function of the opposite gender. In that case, I can understand. I can understand being agender as well.

But what doesn't make sense to me are the genders that are rediculous and sometimes downright offensive. Like people identifying their gender as a number. The one I'm actually offended by is the "Autigender" thing, which is "A gender which can only be understood in the context of being autistic." Considering I happen to be autistic, this is not something I'm okay with at all. Autism is a mental disorder. Not a gender. At some point it just got out of hand in my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OPencil    13
Posted (edited)

I view gender as a construct, essentially something unnecessary in our society. There's no reason to divide and segregate and label and identify- we're just the human race, and people's biological sexes should only be relevant in a medical or sexual context. I do what I like, and don't worry about what gender things are meant for. I don't feel any necessity to label- I just exist, and view everyone equally, regardless of what they were born as or identify as. (However, I do respect all of the conventional gender identities- non-binary/genderqueer, which I identify as, and the subgroups: agender, genderless, genderfluid, genderflux, demigenders, androgynous/intergender, maverique, polygender, transgender, cisgender, third gender, and so on, within reason). I support people labelling themselves to describe how they engage with society's ideas of gender, or non-conformity, but I see a lot of people confusing gender with other personal aspects (I.e personality) these days. Things like monoromanticism confuse me- there's no need to emphasise biological sex in the amount of contexts people currently do.

Edited by OPencil

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fisk    89
Posted (edited)

I don't know if I'd call it a spectrum, but there certainly are people who are something else than simply a man or a woman. And I'm not talking about biological sex here.

I've seen a lot of heated discussion about the subject lately, some claiming there are only two genders and some claiming that, like, pirate must be accepted as a gender and pirates must have their own bathrooms and pronouns. I think both sides are bullshit. Just because you yourself don't have an experience of being transgender doesn't invalidate other people's gender experiences, but this world cannot and should not be built for each and every minority.

What comes to transsexuals, no one can logically deny their existence, because it is proven that there are great amounts of individuals who feel like they are in the wrong body and become much happier after changing their physical features. Officially it's considered a mental illness (gender dysphoria), and people are free to agree or disagree with that, but no one can seriously claim that this phenomenon wouldn't exist.

Then there are transgenders, who don't really identify with their own sex, but not really with the opposite sex either. I personally find it a bit complicated how some people are coming up with dozens of terms for the different ways of being transgender, because everybody has their own way of experiencing their gender, be they male, female or something else. But if those labels make some people happy, then sure, go ahead. (By the way, the simple label of a "third gender" is a great thing, I wish it would become a thing in more countries.) What I seriously don't understand is how some people can even question the existence of the transgender experience. If most people identify with the same sex, and it can be proven that some people identify with the opposite sex, then why would it be impossible for some people to have a more vague sense of gender identity? And why, WHY would that be unacceptable? "Mentally handicapped people are less valuable", "Black people are less valuable", "Women are less valuable", "Children are less valuable", "The mentally ill are less valuable", "Homosexuals are less valuable". Not accepting transgendered people is just one more of these stupid ideas that will one day be dismissed and laughed at.

You cannot choose your gender, gender chooses you. Gender is not fashion or a trend. And you cannot expect people to build separate bathrooms for you, because if everyone got a bathroom that corresponds to their personal experience about their genders, there wouldn't be space for much else than bathrooms on this planet. Bathrooms are not supposed to be label rooms where people go only if the sign on the door has their picture on it - they are rooms where people go to pee and poop, or throw up or scratch their buttholes or fart or cry or have unprotected sex or just sit down and reflect on their lives. Remember that before bathrooms, we used to do all this in the bushes, men and women and children and giraffes, all together. Men go to the men's room, women go to the women's room, and all others go to the one where it is the most appropriate in their personal situation.

And just no with the pronouns. This is why I love my language, there are no gender specific pronouns. English and other languages of the same family don't work that way, and you cannot force that to change. I mean, it is literally impossible to force a change in a language, because language changes uncontrollably, almost on its own, and no one person has control over that. Pronouns are such a basic thing in any language, you can't expect people to always remember what word you want to be referred with. That's why you have a name. Your name refers to you, carry that with pride. Pronouns refer to all people, and the third person pronouns refer to third persons. Sometimes you must be a third person to someone else, because fortunately, the world does not revolve around you.

TL;DR It's stupid to claim transgenders don't exist or that they are stupid, and it's also stupid to claim that the idea of being transgender needs to be treated as if it was the royal, humanity-saving research. Some of these people seriously need some serious chill.

Edited by Fisk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, I don't really know much about this topic, but I think there's only male, female, and in some special cases, transgender. I don't think it's on a spectrum because I feel like the people making it thought they knew more about biology then biologists. Then again though, I don't know much really compared to other people on this topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Antigender– A gender which can only be described as the opposite of another gender, eg. an antiboy being the opposite of a boy. Also known as ungender. (Taen from the website).

This one is one I don't really get, isn't a anti boy, being the opposite of a boy, a girl?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well antigender may not be a thing, but look at things like agender and gender fluid, I do not agree with whoever thinks those don't make sense. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know, for any particular culture, if you behaved the exact opposite of that culture's standard for Masculinity, would you necessarily be behaving in a way that matches that culture's standard for femininity? After all, being opposites isn't the only possible form a binary relationship can take. 0 and 1 are the digits of binary code, but the opposite of 1 is -1, not 0. Down quarks are most commonly seen bound with up quarks to form neutrons, but the opposite of an up quark is an up anti-quark, not the down quark. I'm not sure what the opposite of the Sun would be, but the Moon really doesn't fit given even rudimentary knowledge of modern astronomy.

 

Of course, much of this, and even significant portions of agender and gender fluidity kind of break down once you accept that masculine and feminine are cultural constructs with little basis in biology, accept that human behavior has a large variance, and stop trying to categorise every minute variation in personality and behavior in relation to masculine and feminine.

 

As for what's in one's pants, I'd like to repeat that male and female work for the vast majority of cases, and intersex covers most of the rare cases male and female don't.

 

People need to stop making these things more complicated than they need to be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OPencil    13
16 hours ago, EthanDaOmoWIz said:

Antigender– A gender which can only be described as the opposite of another gender, eg. an antiboy being the opposite of a boy. Also known as ungender. (Taen from the website).

This one is one I don't really get, isn't a anti boy, being the opposite of a boy, a girl?

It's not explained clearly, but from what I can infer, it's being pangender minus one gender. For instance, an antigirl could experience agender, masculinity, third gender, etc, but never femininity? It doesn't seem the most useful term, though, because bigender/trigender/polygender can sum up the above, or perhaps the fluid/flux suffix, or a term to describe what one IS, rather than what one IS NOT.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.