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Don't act surprised, you knew this was coming.

 

The debate forum has been dry and quiet recently, with the most interesting topics either ending derailed or closed due to a select few, so I decided it was time to make another debate to fill the void, and hopefully not get derailed. And the best debates are always heated, but respectful and civil. And do you know what people, especially Americans, are passionate about? The next President of the United States. You might wonder why a Canadian is making such a thread. Our media is flooded with this, and I've developed an interest. So I want to hear who you want to be the next POTUS and why. Have something to say about a candidate you don't want in? Why not? 

 

I'm going to lay a few ground rules, for obvious reasons.

 

- Respect is a must. I want to keep this from being flamed up for as long as possible.

- No name calling, no insult flinging, not even passive aggressiveness. We're adults here.

- No being a moron.

- Stay relevant, stay on task. The topic is clear.

- Debate properly. Proper sourcing, etc. Consider any obviously biased news sources or the like to be invalid backing, unless you're arguing against it to prove a particular point. I don't want to hear left wing this, right wing that. Unbiased, non-opinion based, unless you're using it in conjunction with your own argument to strengthen a point and not as direct proof, or to argue against it and use it as a stepping stone to a conclusion. They Say/I Say, basic argumentative essay tactic.

- This goes for unbiased technical sourcing too. Don't just post a link without arguing what that means to you, why its relevant, and using it to directly back your point.

- Expect more rules to be added depending on how this thread goes.

 

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, unless they're deliberately being ignorant, or if they refuse to acknowledge evidence against them and whine about it. See debating rulings above, said tactics are also a good proper form for counter-rebuttals.

 

I have no intention of closing the thread, and I want it to stay on track. If someone is disobeying the rules relayed above, feel free to call them out on it once and urge them to debate properly, and should they continue I will put in a request to have them removed from this specific topic.

 

For those wondering, I am feeling the Bern. Take issue with it? Tell me why! Agree? Tell me why!

 

On your mark!
Get set!

DEBATE ON!!!

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Definitely going to vote for Bernie, his campaign is quite similar to Jesse Jackson's and I like much of what he's saying.  I hope Hilary does not end up as the frontrunner as while I appreciate most of what she says, she has still done some stupid things like voting for the Iraq war and trying to ban violent video games(back when the Hot Coffee scandal was going on).

Don't even get me started on Trump, he's an insane lunatic.

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As long as Congress is full of Democrats and Republicans who are too busy disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing to get anything done, it doesn't really matter who the next president is as the president really can't do much without Congress okaying it. That said, I'll probably wait until around October of 2016, look up the Libertarian, Constitution, and Green Party candidates and vote for the most appealing out of those three. If Hilary Clinton gets the Democratic nomination and all three of the aforementioned parties have sucky candidates, I might consider voting democrat.

What we need is a redrawing of the congressional districts based on common sense rather than election rigging and for elections to actually be democratic. Problem is, many of the needed patches to our electoral system would require constitutional amendments, and the people who would have to approve those amendments are largely the ones that benefit from the broken electoral system(or, if I'm not mistaken, it would have to pass congress before the states would have an opportunity to vote on it, and how many representatives are going to vote in favor of increasing their chances of losing the next election?).

Edited by Jeffery Mewtamer

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Well, I have to say I am very happy that Justin Trudeau won the Canadian elections (I have lived in Canada for a large part of my life)- I was opposed to Jonathan Harper's conservative leadership and I agree with Trudeau's standpoints on many issues.

 

In the states, ah, I would have to place my vote for Bernie Sanders. He is the democratic candidate who is more capable of affirmative action than Clinton, who I don't believe would be a good leader, a merely average one at best.

 

However, since I live in California, all 55 electoral votes are going democrat anyway.

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Well, I have to say I am very happy that Justin Trudeau won the Canadian elections (I have lived in Canada for a large part of my life)- I was opposed to Jonathan Harper's conservative leadership and I agree with Trudeau's standpoints on many issues.

 

In the states, ah, I would have to place my vote for Bernie Sanders. He is the democratic candidate who is more capable of affirmative action than Clinton, who I don't believe would be a good leader, a merely average one at best.

 

However, since I live in California, all 55 electoral votes are going democrat anyway.

 

Same here. Trudeau is way better than the Harper menace, here's to hoping he brings us back up.

 

And sanders is good for many reasons. Clinton is just copying what he's been fighting for for over 50 years. His standpoints don't change, so you know he is, for once, a genuine politician. And those points happen to be ones I agree with wholeheartedly. Not to mention Clinton has made some...err...controversial decisions, in the past.

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I'm not from the US, so I can't vote. Bernie Sanders seems like my favourite candidate, and I definitely prefer him both as a person and a potential president to Hillary, but if he doesn't win the Democratic nomination I hope Hillary wins, since she's better than any of the Republican candidates I've seen (the far-right of that party seems to have become its mainstream, and even George W. Bush or Ronald Reagan would seem like a liberal in today's GOP!).

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Hilly "we came, we saw, he died" Clinton? If she gets elected, Cold War II is guaranteed to turn into World War III.

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I honestly don't have much hope for whoever will become president, mostly because the most insane ones usually get more publicity and in turn followers, I think I don't even have to mention his name lol. And if anyone else wins we'll probably finish through a decade of noncooperation in congress anyways. But aside from the negativity I do wish the most for Sanders to gain office. At least he'll be able to show the U.S. once and for all the reality of those type of policies, whether good or bad, so we hopefully don't have to be ignorant of them any further.

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My vote is to Burnie sanders because honestly out of all the other candidates 

 

He seems the most sane and rational but also the one who won't end up causing way to many problems.

 

Hillary would be my next choice I don't like it but she's the greater of the other evils.

 

And Donald Trump...well fuck me I'm moving to Canada if he's elected.

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Well, I've found what it would take for me to cast a lesser of two evils vote for a major party candidate instead of voting for a good candidate among the minor parties. And that's keeping Donald "Reminds me of Adolf Hitler" Trump out of office. We've got several orders of magnitude of excessive xenophobia centered on Muslims and Hispanics without putting someone who spouts so much hate speech as our government's figurehead. Also, I expect the gridlock in Congress and mostly bad ideas making it through said gridlock to continue no matter who wins the oval office.

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I'm not American, but if I was, my vote would go to Rand Paul.

My take on the others:

Trump is a bombastic asshole, but unlike Obama he hasn't actually killed any muslims (yet).
Hillary is some kind of alien robot trying to impersonate a human.

Sanders is a disaster.

I haven't decided if I like Cruz yet, but he seems OK for the most part. Shame on him for not even showing up to vote for auditing the FED though.

I don't know anything about Rubio, and nobody cares about Jeb Bush.

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I don't know anything about Rubio, and nobody cares about Jeb Bush.

Obligatory Bush is obligatory: if there is a Clinton, there must be a Bush. It's like a token loli character in your generic slice of life #987654321

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I'm not American, but if I was, my vote would go to Rand Paul.

My take on the others:

Trump is a bombastic asshole, but unlike Obama he hasn't actually killed any muslims (yet).

Hillary is some kind of alien robot trying to impersonate a human.

Sanders is a disaster.

I haven't decided if I like Cruz yet, but he seems OK for the most part. Shame on him for not even showing up to vote for auditing the FED though.

I don't know anything about Rubio, and nobody cares about Jeb Bush.

How the hell is Sanders a "disaster", I fail to see how wanting to dismantle the big banks makes him a disaster in any way.

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I honestly don't really care who wins, as long as it's not Donald Trump, because honestly, anyone is better than him.

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Ted Cruz is my pick. I'll say that I disagree on his perspectives about abortion, but ultimately he has a plan that will help maintain our nation's finances. He will be able to stabilize government spending, while lowering taxes rates for Americans.

Republicans are not monsters, and they will not banish Muslims, LGBT, or poor people (that's all distortion and blabbering of the mouth, even Trump will and cannot do that). All of those people will exist, regardless of rhetoric that comes from the Republican party. What's more to say is that the rights of any of those people cannot legally be removed. Given this, what is left is national finance and national security, both of which Republican policy upholds as central.

 

Today, we need a president that will lower government spending, improve security, support our law enforcement, and eliminate the budget deficit. The democratic candidates are all about making the government bigger, more intrusive, and worst of all more costly. It is nice that Democrats mention environmental protection as one of their central objectives, but they cannot accomplish environmental protection by talking about it.

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Ted Cruz is my pick. I'll say that I disagree on his perspectives about abortion, but ultimately he has a plan that will help maintain our nation's finances. He will be able to stabilize government spending, while lowering taxes rates for Americans.

Republicans are not monsters, and they will not banish Muslims, LGBT, or poor people (that's all distortion and blabbering of the mouth, even Trump will and cannot do that). All of those people will exist, regardless of rhetoric that comes from the Republican party. What's more to say is that the rights of any of those people cannot legally be removed. Given this, what is left is national finance and national security, both of which Republican policy upholds as central.

 

Today, we need a president that will lower government spending, improve security, support our law enforcement, and eliminate the budget deficit. The democratic candidates are all about making the government bigger, more intrusive, and worst of all more costly. It is nice that Democrats mention environmental protection as one of their central objectives, but they cannot accomplish environmental protection by talking about it.

His "plan" will be a disaster-http://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonynitti/2015/03/23/ted-cruz-to-run-for-president-why-his-plan-for-a-flat-tax-may-doom-his-candidacy/#147050cfdd5f

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Ted Cruz is my pick. I'll say that I disagree on his perspectives about abortion, but ultimately he has a plan that will help maintain our nation's finances. He will be able to stabilize government spending, while lowering taxes rates for Americans.

Republicans are not monsters, and they will not banish Muslims, LGBT, or poor people (that's all distortion and blabbering of the mouth, even Trump will and cannot do that).

 

Gay marriage just got legalized, and many LGBT individuals still experience legal discrimination in their daily lives. While we hopefully won't banish Muslims in the traditional sense, like the internment of Japanese Americans in WWII, we could do something catastrophic, like discriminating or banning Syrian refugees from our country.

 

I don't think there's a right answer, but in my opinion, a better answer is one that attempts to stop fear and hate about how other people live their lives, whether they be a different gender, race, religion, or have a different political ideology. I don't believe Ted Cruz, or other current republican candidates will push our country in the right direction in terms of making our country more accepting of people with differing beliefs.

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I'm gonna say something most people will hate, but my vote is for trump. If the patriot act and what the nsa does are justified, inviting in syrian refugees can only be a bad idea, so his stance on immagration is a big plus. His his heavy handed policies on outsourcing businesses is what really has me sold though. That and I find the way he messes on everyone to be amusing.

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If I was American I would vote for Trump.

Lets face it Americans get a lot of criticism around the world.

If Trump was in power, America would get a lot more back in return for that.
 

America could pick mother Teresa as president and people around the world would still judge them unfairly based on outdated stereotypes.

So they may as well pick someone who is going to justify that perception.

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Funny how people always seem to talk fondly about Mother Theresa, yet she actually did some pretty terrible things and was not really a good person at all.  The Penn and Teller Bullshit episode Holier Than Thou details this, as does Christopher Hitchens(who appears in the episode) book the Missionary Position.


Historically refugees in the U.S. have NEVER committed acts of terrorism and crime actually goes down in areas where they immigrate to, not up:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/07/02/surprise-donald-trump-is-wrong-about-immigrants-and-crime/


http://www.watchseries.li/episode/penn_and_teller:_bullshit_s3_e5.html

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If I was American I would vote for Trump.

Lets face it Americans get a lot of criticism around the world.

If Trump was in power, America would get a lot more back in return for that.

 

America could pick mother Teresa as president and people around the world would still judge them unfairly based on outdated stereotypes.

So they may as well pick someone who is going to justify that perception.

It is not outdated stereotypes, it is perpetual jealousy. The facts speak for themselves, America has the highest immigrant influx rates. Literally, astronomically more people are trying to get in America than to get out. That is to say that whoever will be our president, republican or democrat, millions would still be in line to get in!

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If I was American I would vote for Trump.

Lets face it Americans get a lot of criticism around the world.

If Trump was in power, America would get a lot more back in return for that.

 

America could pick mother Teresa as president and people around the world would still judge them unfairly based on outdated stereotypes.

So they may as well pick someone who is going to justify that perception.

I hope this is a joke....

 

Edited by Finzy

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If I was American I would vote for Trump.

Lets face it Americans get a lot of criticism around the world.

If Trump was in power, America would get a lot more back in return for that.

 

America could pick mother Teresa as president and people around the world would still judge them unfairly based on outdated stereotypes.

So they may as well pick someone who is going to justify that perception.

 

Trump would be a disaster and the world would not respect us if we elected him. In fact, most countries think Trump is an absolute joke, and electing him would just give them more to criticize.

 

Don't forget that we also have 50 senate seats and all of the house of representatives up for election this year too. That's just as important as getting a proper president into office. And whoever gets in also gets to choose new supreme court justices once they retire.

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^I thought only a third of the senate and half of the house was up for re-election at any one time? Still, I'd have to disagree that voting good people into congress is as important as who we put in the white house. Who we vote into congress is more important than who is president. We could put the unqualified best leader in the White House and he wouldn't be able to get anything done if he can't get half of congress to agree with him, but a congress united for the common good could gets things done with a crappy president. Of course, part of the problem is that, even if the major problems with our electoral system were fixed, you'd still have the problem that few voters would be willing to vote against somone who's actions benefit them even if those same actions hurt the rest of the country. A senator who always votes in a way that benefits his home state while hurting the other 49 probably shouldn't state in office, but good luck convincing the majority of the people living in his state to be selfless enough to sacrifice their own advantage for the good of the nation as a whole.

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I'm Italian, so I cannot express anything but an opinion from an European side of view, but I can fairly say that Trump is way more ridiculous and dangerous than our Berlusconi: his statements about immigrants, women (and almost every theme he speaks about) are full of hyper-conservative and medieval stereotypes and fears. It's not about being republican, liberal, socialist or whatever: he's the most inappropriate person for the most important economy in the world. And, at least in European law, his position would be a classic example of "conflict of interest".

I think Obama will be remembered as a great leader (although he could have done way, way more, especially about weapons and welfare). I don't think Hillary Clinton is a good candidate: she's just famous for being the wife of Bill Clinton, and I don't perceive any great or revolutionary ideas. I like Sanders, he seems trustworthy, honest and, above all, a socialist, a social-democratic. Left is what a nation needs: in Europe, most of our problems were caused by hyper-liberism and austerity politics, brought about right-wing parties (the PSE too is just a cente-right european group). The future cannot be like this: for example, people, in America too, need a guaranteed living wage. We must do more about environement... and I hope that death penalty, a primitive, brutal and unforgivable punishment, will be definitely wiped out in every federal state.
So I hope Sanders will win and do what Obama couldn't or didn't want to do. Trump will never win: Americans are not that stupid. I hope. Guys, if you vote the wrong man, the rest of the world will pay for it, too: choose wisely!

P.S. sorry for my English, I really need to improve it.

 

Oh, P.P.S. : about immigrants, guys, getting in Europe is way easier than in America. We don't kill Mexicans at the border if they trespass it, for example. Italy and Greece, above all, are hosting lots of people (we should remember they're people, sometimes). Libians, Syrians, Middle Easterns... 

Edited by Gerenua

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