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If you engage in cybersex before you have real-life sex, have you lost your virginity?


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According to Wikipedia, Cybersex is sex online (like if you jerk off on facetime or something). If someone did this before having real sex, would you still consider them a virgin? The line seems a little blurred.

In my opinion, cybersex is not the same as real sex and the person previously mentioned would still be a virgin.

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Virginity is a social construct that was historically used to devalue women and is still used to shame them/shame men who haven't lost it.  The short answer is: you're a virgin as long as you feel like one. 

 

I used to have this debate with people who said I was still a virgin after having sex with my first girlfriend (I'm also a girl). They all said I was still a virgin because I hadn't been penetrated by a man yet. But for me (at the time) it was significant that she was my first, so that's how I've always thought of it. If you've had cybersex and reached orgasm and want to consider that losing your virginity - great! You did! If you don't want to, then you didn't. Whichever experience you give value to is what really matters. 

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On 5/18/2018 at 11:31 PM, facade said:

You are a virgin until you have had sexual intercourse. For women this requires their hyman to break. 

Dont know why that is downvoted, its not a lie, to many cultures  this is the way girls lose their virginity, if you are a lesbian thats another story, if you are gay thats another story, but cyber sex is not losing your virginity, thats like saying if you masterbate you are suddenly not a virgin

Edited by Brittanybunny
Spelling error (see edit history)
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2 hours ago, Brittanybunny said:

Dont know why that is downvoted, its not a lie, factually speaking, this is the way girls loose their virginity, if you are a lesbian thats another story, if you are gay thats another story, but cyber sex is not loosing your virginity, thats like saying if you masterbate you are suddenly not a virgin

Actually, it’s possible for the hyman to break before sex it to not break during sex, in fact very easy, so technically that means you could “lose your virginity” before even having anything uo your vagina, or you could have what we’d call sex and technically not lose your virginity, so I’d argue that that’s not a surefire way of saying whether virginity has been lost or not and therefore not true. 

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Your hymen doesn't have anything to do with your virginity. If it is intact, vaginal penetration will likely tear it. That's the closest relation a hymen has to virginity. In terms of when a person would consider themselves no longer a virgin in my opinion would be any physical sexual intercourse. 

Edit: In fact I think it's a little funny that you mention that masturbation doesn't equal losing your virginity but tearing your hymen does because I know several women who tore their hymen masturbating. I also know one who tore it horse riding. I've heard of others tearing theirs during athletic stuff too.

Edited by Neko-kun (see edit history)
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Just now, facade said:

I suppose it depends how you're defining virgin. Maybe I see anal sex as just a type of sex act and not intercourse.

We're getting to where I can almost understand your point of view, however in this sense a lesbian woman with an intact hymen would also be a virgin, despite any sexual act she may have performed? Is this correct? I don't agree with you but I appreciate being able to understand what you're saying.

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15 minutes ago, Neko-kun said:

We're getting to where I can almost understand your point of view, however in this sense a lesbian woman with an intact hymen would also be a virgin, despite any sexual act she may have performed? Is this correct? I don't agree with you but I appreciate being able to understand what you're saying.

A virgin by medical standards, yes. 

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4 minutes ago, facade said:

A virgin by medical standards, yes. 

I don't think there is a medical standard for virginity but they do count oral sex, as well as anything that swaps or comes in contact with sexual fluids, as sexual activity. Once again unrelated to the hymen.

Edit: Originally wrote 'intercourse,' changed to 'sexual activity' for clarity.

Edited by Neko-kun (see edit history)
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1 minute ago, Neko-kun said:

I don't think there is a medical standard for virginity but they do count oral sex, as well as anything that swaps or comes in contact with sexual fluids, as intercourse. Once again unrelated to the hymen.

I wasn't aware of that, but I was slowly coming to the conclusion that perhaps my definition is incorrect. It just seemed to make the most sense to me.

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1 minute ago, facade said:

I wasn't aware of that, but I was slowly coming to the conclusion that perhaps my definition is incorrect. It just seemed to make the most sense to me.

I really appreciate your conversation on this. It means a lot to me in a world where people are unwilling to change perspectives that you're just having a real talk about something with me who is just a random guy on the internet really. So thank you.

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17 minutes ago, Neko-kun said:

I really appreciate your conversation on this. It means a lot to me in a world where people are unwilling to change perspectives that you're just having a real talk about something with me who is just a random guy on the internet really. So thank you.

Thanks for noticing that too. I guess I can be a bit old fashioned on some things.

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 I agree with facade that thats just what a lot of people think in general think, we were talking about sexual intercourse and hymen breaking which is what many tie it all to, and why i said if you are a lesbian or gay, its another story, what i meant was that hymen breaking to many, including myself is loosing virginity when its physical intercourse only, if you loose your hymen by a sex toy or masterbating it does not count

Edited by Brittanybunny (see edit history)
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I agree that the old and common perception of virginity is what is stated but I don't think it is accurate. I also don't agree with the idea that there are somehow different virginity rules for queer people. A virgin as a concept is what you are before you've had sex. If the same act counts as losing your virginity if you're queer but not if you're straight, then that idea is bogus. Which ever way you want to see it should apply equally to all people.

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To be honest I really never understood why losing virginity is such a big deal in our society, like it makes someone a different person or gives a level up, lol.

But back to topic, of course not, you can't lose virginity by engaging in cybersex. Perhaps in our days we can make a separate definition of cyber-virginity if it really matters for anyone?

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1 hour ago, facade said:

I wasn't aware of that, but I was slowly coming to the conclusion that perhaps my definition is incorrect. It just seemed to make the most sense to me.

I appreciate you realizing that others could have different definitions, which really gets back to what I was initially saying. The concept of virginity was created and then defined as meaning something specific, and as society changes so do our definitions of socially constructed concepts like "virginity."

Yes, breaking a hymen through intercourse can be one way of losing virginity. But there are lots of other ways to break one's hymen that don't include intercourse. As was previously mentioned by brittanybunny, this doesn't work for gay men and lesbian women (and other versions of queer folks who may engage in sexual acts with a partner who has genitalia similar to their own). So what then becomes the standard? Sexual acts that end in orgasm? Surely not, or there are many married women who have never lost their virginity (which obviously isn't true). 

 

I  think the better question to ask here is why we still assign some semblance of importance to virginity? What role does it actually play in today's society? historically it was used to assess a woman's worth - she was only chaste and virtuous if a virgin. But does engage in anal and/or oral sex while remaining a "virgin" really make someone virtuous? And why does "virtue" matter at all?

 

I guess I've only said all this to repeat my earlier statement - virginity means whatever the individual wants it to mean. If it is something you value, then by all means, continue to do so. I'm not here to change someone's value system. But let each individual define it for themself and decide how much they do or don't care about whether they're still a virgin or not rather than attempting to force someone to take up your personal definition as their own (and this "your" isn't directed at anyone in particular, just the general you). 

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