Conviction for Rape?

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So my friends I live in India where the conviction rate in rape cases is pretty high, that means 'death penalty'. In some high profile cases the accused get bail and they are allowed to roam free after committing such a hideous crime. On December 16th  2012 a Delhi girl was brutally raped and then throw out of a moving bus to die along with her boyfriend.

They both were beaten brutally by six goons. Even after the rapists have been caught and sentenced to death, there is a significant rise in the number of rape cases in our country.

So what do you all think that the punishment for a rapist should be and how can we protect the women and children from such monsters?

 

 

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"Rape" would have to be very clearly defined in order to mete out punishment.

 

For example, is it "rape" when a 21 year old guy has (in all other respects consensual) sex with a 16 year old girl? (My own opinion would doubtless get me banned from the forums, so I will wait until a majority opinion forms as to what "rape" is, before giving my own (unwanted^^) opinion.)

Edited by a_ban_doned_queen

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(My own opinion would doubtless get me banned from the forums, so I will wait until a majority opinion forms as to what "rape" is, before giving my own (unwanted^^) opinion.)

You would be strongly surprised. I am 99% sure of the unpopular opinion that you have and I agree with it, and I believe the admin does too. You won't be banned for your opinions here anyway.

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So my friends I live in India where the conviction rate in rape cases is pretty high, that means 'death penalty'. In some high profile cases the accused get bail and they are allowed to roam free after committing such a hideous crime. On December 16th  2012 a Delhi girl was brutally raped and then throw out of a moving bus to die along with her boyfriend.

They both were beaten brutally by six goons. Even after the rapists have been caught and sentenced to death, there is a significant rise in the number of rape cases in our country.

So what do you all think that the punishment for a rapist should be and how can we protect the women and children from such monsters?

I'd say castration or death is an appropriate punishment for rape.

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I'd say castration or death is an appropriate punishment for rape.

An eye for an eye, we all go blind.

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I must admit I might be far too close to this subject to contribute anything meaningful. I have had three friends experience that despicable act. For two of them it happened years before we ever met but for the other... if we had been going to the same college at the time, I'd be in jail or on death row, and they'd still be finding parts of him in small unmarked graves to this very day. As it stands, my friend has fortunately moved past it, and I believe that this particular unimpressive specimen of humanity removed himself from the gene pool through an ill-advised combination of alcohol and automobile. In this case the problem - to a certain extent - solved itself, but society is seldom so lucky.

 

I have read that there is only one crime, that of theft, and the distinctions are only what was stolen. And of course, there are some things, once taken, that can never be returned, replaced, or restored. I would therefore allocate the judicial response to premeditated murder to rape as well, as they are both a case of a deliberately inflicted, irrevocable loss unto another person.

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My personal definition of rape since it has been so watered down in the states: When one party involved in level 5 sexual act IE (Anal or Vaginal) has explicitly stated the have no desire in taking part in said sexual act or was never given an opportunity to state they had no desire for said sexual act yet is still forced into said act through any number of means.

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I must have unpopular opinions on this subject (no surprise). I honestly don't believe a rapist deserves to be tortured or brutally murdered. What is this going to accomplish? 

 

Nothing. Just your own lust for vengeance.

 

A rapist should be separated from society and attempted to be rehabilitated. Perhaps be forced to relocate far away from any of their victims. What they took from their victim can't be given back, I agree with that. What they did was super hardcore heinous, I agree. But all you're going to do by brutally murdering them is fucking up your own life and perhaps the victims life even more. You should be helping the victim try to get back to a normal state of life and getting them away from any more danger.

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I hate rape. But I also have brothers. If they are ever involved in this crap, they deserve to be horse-whipped bloody until they learn better. And apologise. To the victim. And then to the parets of the victim. And then to their own parents, for making a mockery of everything that they taught him when he did this sh*te.

 

But I don't believe in those hypersensitive moms who are so unwilling to discipline their own daughters that they will testify to send a boy to jail just because he has reached majority and her own daughter didn't. It's not rape just because the hysterical mother is screaming for that to be the verdict. It is rape if there is a victim, not just by virtue of "she didn't know better, so he is guilty."

 

Just because we have stupid rules, does not place the blame solely on guys. Guys are stupid. When it comes to having sex,they turn even more so. Being stupid is not enough to warrant having his life ruined just because he met an equally stupid girl. (I am talking about, oh, say, the movie Stalked at 17. Rubbish movie. The girl is a moron and the guy just wanted to get l*id. Horse whip the both of them, it would do them both a lot of good).

 

What warrants the death penalty? Sadism. There are motherfcukers who rape because it excites them, and they don't care who they victimize. These guys are criminals and deserve to be persecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

 

But not barely-of-age guys who just wanted to have sex with a girl and didn't bother to ask her how old she was. Not solely the guy's fault. The girl lied as well. If both are guilty, why punish only the one? 

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I hate rape. But I also have brothers. If they are ever involved in this crap, they deserve to be horse-whipped bloody until they learn better. And apologise. To the victim. And then to the parets of the victim. And then to their own parents, for making a mockery of everything that they taught him when he did this sh*te.

 

But I don't believe in those hypersensitive moms who are so unwilling to discipline their own daughters that they will testify to send a boy to jail just because he has reached majority and her own daughter didn't. It's not rape just because the hysterical mother is screaming for that to be the verdict. It is rape if there is a victim, not just by virtue of "she didn't know better, so he is guilty."

 

Just because we have stupid rules, does not place the blame solely on guys. Guys are stupid. When it comes to having sex,they turn even more so. Being stupid is not enough to warrant having his life ruined just because he met an equally stupid girl. (I am talking about, oh, say, the movie Stalked at 17. Rubbish movie. The girl is a moron and the guy just wanted to get l*id. Horse whip the both of them, it would do them both a lot of good).

 

What warrants the death penalty? Sadism. There are motherfcukers who rape because it excites them, and they don't care who they victimize. These guys are criminals and deserve to be persecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

 

But not barely-of-age guys who just wanted to have sex with a girl and didn't bother to ask her how old she was. Not solely the guy's fault. The girl lied as well. If both are guilty, why punish only the one? 

100x this. It's easy to jump on the hate train, but innocents always get caught in the crossfire.

Edited by CuriousOne

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I must have unpopular opinions on this subject (no surprise). I honestly don't believe a rapist deserves to be tortured or brutally murdered. What is this going to accomplish? 

 

Nothing. Just your own lust for vengeance.

 

A rapist should be separated from society and attempted to be rehabilitated. Perhaps be forced to relocate far away from any of their victims. What they took from their victim can't be given back, I agree with that. What they did was super hardcore heinous, I agree. But all you're going to do by brutally murdering them is fucking up your own life and perhaps the victims life even more. You should be helping the victim try to get back to a normal state of life and getting them away from any more danger.

I agree with this...

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And I don't mean to say that you shouldn't protect yourself and those around you when they are in the process of attacking. Do what you need to do to get them off and get away and then get the police on them.

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Well, I am from México, in my country the law has a really problem about the punishment, first of all, the highest time in prission for any crime, including rape or murder is 24 years but its a sumatory of cases, if one person rapes 2 victims then is 50 years of prission. But here there is not "rape" if it has not vaginal penetration, that means for example: anal forced girl was not raped because there is not rape at the laws eyes. The consensual sex between a boy and a girl younger than 18 years is considerated rape (boy rapist, girl victim).

 

As psicologist I can tell you this: There are kinds of rapist, serial rapist:  a person who gets excited for rape, and can not help it, people who is called rapist of one ocasion, who has an oportunity, for rape someone in a moment of great stress and do it not for sexual excitation, they do it for the need of a "relief" of the stress, those kind of rapist use to feel guilty and never do it again in general cases, they use to apologuize or evitate the victim for his own shame (I do a translatin free of this term, I don´t know the concept in Englis); there is also the group of rapist: in this case the rape is done for a group of guys who has the oportunity for a concidence of circunstances (just like the one ocasion), ususally guided for an alpha leader, they are not into the rape really, but when their leader starts, they follw, they share the guilt between all the members of the group (this is an psicological thing that happend often, just watch the football fans when kill someone in a moment of stress); and finally sadic rapist who rapes because they like to inflict wounds and pain and the sex can be secundary objetive, the less common, the most dangerous.

 

I think the rape punishment must be high or less depending the situations  Wrote before, more punishment for sadics, less of  the one ocasion stressed rapist.

Edited by Goldenstorm

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I also know some people who were raped, and I know how horribly it has affected them. Also, my ex-wife was sexually abused as a child.

 

Punishment depends on the circumstances indeed. I do not believe jail time or just rehabilitation is the right answer in many cases, neither is. What is needed more often is intensive psychiatric treatment with an open end (no release until psychiatrists / psychologists agree). This can be together with jail time (forced institutionalization).

 

I would never harm another person. Someone who does something like this, for whatever reason, has no shame, knows no boundaries, has no conscience. Only when those points are addressed should they ever be released, even if that means locking them up for life.

 

And regarding kids being kids, obviously that should not be a crime. I believe age of consent should be at 14 or so in the law, not 16 or 18 or whatever. It varies by country already. In most of Europe it's at age 16 now.

And also, it's wrong to assume the boy is guilty and the girl the victim, in 'statutory' rape cases. I personally once had an underage girl hunting after me determined to get me, when I was an adult. Of course I said no. I'm not crazy. It's wrong, in so many ways I cannot even describe, and it's illegal. But assuming it's always the boy/man who is to blame is simply wrong, there are definitely predatory girls out there as well.

Edited by Ben Jones

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I must have unpopular opinions on this subject (no surprise). I honestly don't believe a rapist deserves to be tortured or brutally murdered. What is this going to accomplish? 

 

Nothing. Just your own lust for vengeance.

 

A rapist should be separated from society and attempted to be rehabilitated. Perhaps be forced to relocate far away from any of their victims. What they took from their victim can't be given back, I agree with that. What they did was super hardcore heinous, I agree. But all you're going to do by brutally murdering them is fucking up your own life and perhaps the victims life even more. You should be helping the victim try to get back to a normal state of life and getting them away from any more danger.

Some people are just beyond help and cannot be rehabilitated.

An eye for an eye, we all go blind.

Try telling that to victims.

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I live in the UK and there have been many cases where rapists are not convicted. I'm not talking about a death sentence or torture but they don't even go to jail, and when they do this is for a few months (and in very few cases.) Even when there is solid evidence, witnesses and sometimes even video evidence or a confession some rapists walk free. Victim blaming almost ALWAYS occurs in rape cases that I have heard about. I'm not entirely sure I support the death penalty at all but rapists deserve to be in jail as a punishment or a rehabilitation people need to see that rape is a serious crime that people are punished for. Having people get away with it encourages more people to think it is acceptable.

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I agree with a lot of what has been said already.

Yes, there are cases of males being 100% guilty, in which case. Send them to jail, or even better separate them from everyone they know (and love?) Death sentence is, in my opinion not going to achieve anything.

There are also cases, as A_ban_doned_queen has said where a boy barely of age has consensual sex with a girl barely underage. That should not be rape, in anybody's eyes, especially if they have been in a committed relationship. It would maybe be different if they had just met, or there was more of an age gap where it could be argued the girl could not agree to consensual sex.

 

So far though, everyone has talked about women, and girls as victims. No one has mentioned the (admittedly) small number of male rape victims. Everyone seems to see rape as something a male does to a female, but it can equally be done by males to males and I am sure I may get some bashing for this comment, but I guess even females can rape males (a female could easily use a dildo/strapon/something to anally rape a male).

 

I also think sometimes people are too quick to cry rape, as a means to punish someone for something (not necessarily for an actual act of rape!)

 

I hope I've not ruffled too many feathers with my opinions, but I felt the need to say what I have.

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It's crazy to consider death penalty as legit: as an European, I really cannot understand how it can be considered acceptable, in the USA as in India. You don't defeat violence with more violence. Prison too doesn't make sense (but I have particular ideas about reclusion, I'd try domiciliar reclusion): they're crazy, we must try to cure them. However, I think that the tragedy of rapes in India is a social and ethical problem. With all the respect for an important country with an ancient tradition and lots of wonders, India isn't a fully civilized country: extended misery and lack of real freedom influences people a lot (Feuerbach said "a man is what he eats").  I recently saw a documentary about women's condition in India: they cannot do anything, they're imprisoned in their house and almost slaves of their men. In such a cultural context, I'm not surprised that also in industrialized and modern cities rapes and violences towards women are frequent: what a lots of men need (not only India, but especially) is a modern education. Moral is related to context, period and place: a lots of Indians have a moral that is not anymore acceptable by civil people, as you, as me, as we all, Indian, European, American, African or whatever we are. A real government should invest on education, especially civil and ethical education. I hope that one day these crazy men will change.

 

P.S. the age of consent in most European countries is 18 years, not 16. If there's no violence in a 16-21 relationship and the girl complained about having sex with him... well, I think that there's too much difference, but I would never consider it a boy only's fault: they were both immature, so it's not too much grave.

Edited by Gerenua

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There is a true indeed, to kill or to jail a rapist, doesn´t do anything about the problem, in some countries there is not considerated a big deal to rape someone, in other ones it´s really important, but the fact is: The problem origin comes from a cultural context plus lack of security plus human nature plus biological factor. I think each case must be analized and check if the rapist could be rehabilitated by therapy, must be medicated or if he is not able to rehabilitation then imprison him/her.

 

That´s true a fact, the most of the cases are men rapist, woman victim, but it isonly in the statistics, most of the men who has been raped don´t tell it because a cultural fact, some women also do it for shame, and it´s true some girls are also rapist, that makes the statistics a false fact.

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Goldenstorm has a good point on analyzing the criminals to see what to do with them. If we can accurately predict how to deal with each criminal, that would be more effective than any blanket ruling. I don't, however, know if we are capable of that or if it's reasonable to do so. 

 

As far as I can tell, there are the classifications of one time events, continuing criminals, and consensual sex between a minor and someone who is not a minor. Those are a condensation of what Goldenstorm said, but I don't see the need for further distinction, except in mental treatment.

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So far though, everyone has talked about women, and girls as victims. No one has mentioned the (admittedly) small number of male rape victims. Everyone seems to see rape as something a male does to a female, but it can equally be done by males to males and I am sure I may get some bashing for this comment, but I guess even females can rape males (a female could easily use a dildo/strapon/something to anally rape a male).

 

That's actually a valid concern, that the door swings both ways. Thanks for bringing it up. I can definitely see how the consequences could be catastrophic for a male who had been assaulted so, and not only had to deal with the trauma of the act itself, but without any of the support structure that most women in the same circumstances could lean on because 1. Some people don't think it's possible and 2. Even those who recognize it as happened expect the male to "man up" and just get over it as if it were comparable to hitting the thumb with a hammer. It would certainly encourage men to keep such encounters to themselves, and not for the better.

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Some people are just beyond help and cannot be rehabilitated.

But how can you tell if they're beyond help or not? Where do you draw the line?

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That's one of the reasons why I said "attempted" to be rehabilitated. Yes there are mistakes in humanity that should be purged. Some can be fixed, some can't.

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In India, misogyny is much more commonplace than it is here. It is socially acceptable to sexually harass women as a way to demonstrate masculinity/approach women.

Rape is pretty plainly defined by the law over there and I am actually very proud of them for taking a legal stance that aims to curb that sort of a social and cultural precedent.

 

To answer your question, there's nothing really more they can do than taking a harder stance on "gateway" crimes like sexual harassment/assault/battery. Death is death, the only harder stance they can take on that falls under cruel and unusual.

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But how can you tell if they're beyond help or not? Where do you draw the line?

I'd say if a person is let out of prison once and commits more crimes, than that shows they haven't really learned their lesson and have no interest in improving themselves.

I took a Criminal Justice course in school and my instructor talked about the 80-20 theory, a theory where 80% of criminals can be rehabilitated but 20% are either incapable of changing or do not want to(my instructor told the class about one person who admitted to him that as soon as he got out of prison that he would go right back to selling drugs)

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